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this is Ross coultart and you are

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listening to that UFO podcast

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[Music]

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hi everyone and welcome back to that UFO

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podcast my name is Andy and on a very

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cold Winter's morning I am joined by my

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guest out in the sunny sunny warms of

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Australia even

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um he is a teacher writer researcher and

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federal parliamentary public servant he

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has worked and studied at Charles

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Stewart University the University of

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Canberra and the Australian National

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University all in Canberra

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um he was the principal researcher and

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narrator for the excellent documentary

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on the west all incident West all 66 a

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Suburban UFO mystery which was first

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broadcast on the Australian Sci-fi

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channel in 2010 I'd like to welcome

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Shane Ryan to the podcast

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hello Andy it's great to see you and to

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chat to you in person after all this

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time and it's a real pleasure to to join

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our two wonderful accents together and

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talk about

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the crazy

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subject of UFOs so thank you for the for

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the privilege of being on YouTube thank

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you

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and many listeners know a lot about West

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all and what happened and probably just

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as many aren't too familiar with it so

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it's a really good time to dive into

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this I think especially uh as the aerial

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School phenomenon documentary received

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such wide prayers that came out a few

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months ago and I think there's a lot of

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Echoes of that in in the west all

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incident as well

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um what I'd love to do is Shane is to

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hand over to yourself and just ask you

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first off for those who are unfamiliar

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well that's a really good question what

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is it all about and what was it all

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about and after all these years of

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investigating this really interesting

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story a story that I often describe as

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certainly Australia's and possibly the

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world's largest mass witness daylight

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Mass Witness

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uh UFO sighting and not just a UFO

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sighting of one to three flying

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saucer-shaped craft in the air but at

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least one possibly more of these craft

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coming down and being witnessed either

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on the ground or very close to the

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ground and then in addition to that not

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just the matter of these objects being

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seen by so many people and it was

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literally hundreds of people school

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students of course mainly high school

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and Primary School students but also

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some teachers and some local residents

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and workers but in addition to that

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whatever it was that was behind these

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strange objects and behind this incident

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there was a huge response to it a

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response to it by government different

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levels of government local state and

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federal government authorities in terms

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of the military emergency services

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police all responded on this day to what

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so many of these people saw this

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April day in Melbourne and it happened

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in a place about 21 kilometers from the

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Central Central business district of

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Melbourne and it was a community a

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neighborhood that was called westall

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which was within the larger suburb of

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Clayton South and this part of Melbourne

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at that time back in 1966 was very much

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still on the Urban Fringe of Melbourne

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it was semi-urban and semi-rural so the

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suburbs were beginning to encroach on

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what had been up until that point very

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much agricultural land farming land and

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there was still a lot of farming going

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on mainly Market Gardens so the growing

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of vegetables and flowers and and some

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fruit

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and so it was really this place

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on the edge of Melbourne

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and in a way a very ordinary Place very

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Ordinary People very down to earth

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people

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uh going about their lives uh when on

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this day which happened to be the second

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last day of term for schools in Victoria

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something literally out of the blue

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appeared in the skies above two schools

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and I emphasize the two schools because

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sometimes it gets lost in uh in

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Translation if you like there were

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actually two School communities involved

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one a high school

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we're still high school and then

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neighboring that on the same property

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but adjacent to the school a primary

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school that was known as westall state

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school and so two communities two

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separate School communities but together

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on one parcel of land and they were both

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very much involved in the sighting that

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happened that day

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and it wasn't just the children

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obviously that reported seeing flying

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saucers at the time there was the

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teachers also witnessed this too yeah

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that's right so uh in addition to the

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school students uh of course there are a

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lot of teachers there on this day there

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weren't that many teachers that were

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aware of that were primary Witnesses I

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know of only two from the high school

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one was one of the two science teachers

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at the high school a man called Andrew

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Greenwood and the other teacher was a

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physical education teacher and she was a

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New Zealand lady who we think was one of

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the possibly two PE teachers that were

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out on the school oval at the time

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supervising and running the two PE

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classes that were happening

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they were of course teachers at the

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neighboring primary school

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and I know certainly of one of those

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teachers that was a witness of sorts uh

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mostly a witness to the aftermath of the

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UFOs appearing and the effect that it

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had on the students but also some of the

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physical

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aftermath that apparently at least one

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of these UFOs left on the sports ground

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or near the sports ground at the primary

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school

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I've actually just to make it a little

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bit easier for people because sometimes

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rather than just talk listening to the

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investigator the researcher somebody

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like myself

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talking about what I've learned or what

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I've heard I've actually prepared some

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small vignettes if you like bits of the

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story that have been provided to me over

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the years by the people who are actually

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there and it might make more sense to

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your listeners and to your viewers if I

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share some of those if you're ready for

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me to do that

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so

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um I've been researching this story

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since 2005 and I originally set up a

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Yahoo groups web site this is way back

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in the days before social media like

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Facebook took over when Yahoo groups

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were still a thing and I myself at that

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point in time was dabbling with the

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internet and trying to work it all out

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myself and so I set up this Yahoo groups

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website just to put The Feelers out

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there in cyberspace to see if anyone

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remembered this story

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um I guess I was going through a little

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bit of a midlife crisis myself an early

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midlife crisis of course and um I I

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thought I should probably write a book

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a book for for children for young adults

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and completely out of the blue even to

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this day I really don't know where the

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idea came from but I remember this old

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Flying Saucer story that I heard myself

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when I had lived in Melbourne many years

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before when I moved from country

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Victoria down to Melbourne to study at

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University and I bought it with a lady

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who had over the years

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had one or two students International

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and domestic students stay with her

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while they were going to University and

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I turn out to be one of those and she is

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the lady who originally told me about

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their story because she had two friends

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whose son had been at westall State

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School the primary school that day and

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had been a witness and he'd come home he

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told his parents the story and over time

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the lady I lived with her friends had

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told her the story and there's another

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connection to that Witness this and to

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that lady

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and to her mother who herself had an

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experience around the same time which I

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can come back to later if you like but

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that's how I initially came across the

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story all those years ago

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and after I set up the Yahoo groups

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website a couple of local newspapers

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also picked up on my interest in the

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story and between those two articles

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going out into local newspapers and the

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Yahoo groups website reaching out to

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people people started to contact me and

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first it was one or two or three people

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and I'd talk to them over the phone and

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they would give me names about other

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people that I they thought I should talk

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to and so the number sort of grew slowly

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and then more quickly over the months

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and years and before I knew it I had

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this substantial

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number of witnesses primary Witnesses

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mostly who had seen

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the flying sources and some of them had

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seen the traces left behind by these

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flying sources and some of them were

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lucky enough to have seen both of those

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things

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that adorned on me eventually that uh

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this wasn't an urban myth that wasn't

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just a story that had grown legs over

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the years and snowballed that there were

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very definite common elements common

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denominators to the story that people

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were telling me and I realized then that

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perhaps I needed to shift my focus from

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thinking about writing a book of fiction

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based on a true story like this story

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for kids

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and try to do something

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for those kids that were now adults and

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try to get the bot up to the bottom of

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the story and try to find an answer for

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these people and I think at the time I

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was naive enough to think that I could

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probably crack this this nut

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the the nub of this mystery whatever it

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was within 18 months or two years that

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whatever it was that was behind what

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these people say they saw and

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experienced surely I'd be able to

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find out what the answer was

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that I'd be able to find some sort of

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explanation

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whether it was prosaic or

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not so prosaic or something in between

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and 56 years later I'm sitting at this

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desk in my study in my house in Canberra

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and I'm still on that same journey and I

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guess that has a lot in common with lots

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of other classic UFO cases around the

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world you could think about cases like

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rendersham or Roswell or whatever it

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might be

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the people who have tried to cut but um

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crack those nuts if you like and and

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find the answers are still on that

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Journey

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could I just ask one question before we

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get into some of those kind of Snippets

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from from the witnesses we're talking

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about the 60s an Australian history what

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was that either like in Australia we've

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got the Cold War happening between the

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USA and the USSR

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um how had that affected the population

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and what was the kinesic Geist within

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Australia do you know

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I think that's a really interesting part

280
00:12:22,430 --> 00:12:18,660
of the whole story and I often say to

281
00:12:24,769 --> 00:12:22,440
people you know beyond the the really

282
00:12:27,050 --> 00:12:24,779
exotic elements of their story beyond

283
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:27,060
what it really was that people saw at

284
00:12:30,710 --> 00:12:29,760
westall that day and as I often say to

285
00:12:32,990 --> 00:12:30,720
people

286
00:12:34,750 --> 00:12:33,000
I don't have a particular agenda that

287
00:12:36,650 --> 00:12:34,760
I'm aware of I don't have a particular

288
00:12:38,389 --> 00:12:36,660
Barrow that I'm pushing it doesn't

289
00:12:41,389 --> 00:12:38,399
really matter to me what the ultimate

290
00:12:45,470 --> 00:12:41,399
answer is as to what people saw

291
00:12:47,750 --> 00:12:45,480
um I'm just after the answer but beyond

292
00:12:50,030 --> 00:12:47,760
that and surrounding that of course you

293
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:50,040
have in a way

294
00:12:54,769 --> 00:12:50,880
yeah

295
00:12:56,990 --> 00:12:54,779
just as important as the UFOs themselves

296
00:12:58,970 --> 00:12:57,000
you have the other characters in the

297
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:58,980
story and the other characters aren't

298
00:13:02,569 --> 00:13:01,200
the things up in the sky

299
00:13:05,269 --> 00:13:02,579
the other characters are the human

300
00:13:08,210 --> 00:13:05,279
beings the people these literally

301
00:13:11,210 --> 00:13:08,220
hundreds of people that were involved

302
00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:11,220
this day and and over subsequent days

303
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:13,279
because there were other sightings over

304
00:13:19,550 --> 00:13:16,560
subsequent days around westall as well

305
00:13:22,850 --> 00:13:19,560
and and it's something that's affected

306
00:13:24,590 --> 00:13:22,860
these people for for decades for all

307
00:13:28,310 --> 00:13:24,600
their all their lives

308
00:13:29,990 --> 00:13:28,320
and I've become part of that story if

309
00:13:34,430 --> 00:13:30,000
you like I've become entwined in that

310
00:13:37,389 --> 00:13:34,440
part of their lives and so getting a

311
00:13:40,430 --> 00:13:37,399
feel for what it was like on the ground

312
00:13:43,730 --> 00:13:40,440
in Melbourne Australia's second largest

313
00:13:45,530 --> 00:13:43,740
city at that time in 1966 has been

314
00:13:48,590 --> 00:13:45,540
important for me I wasn't born until the

315
00:13:50,990 --> 00:13:48,600
following year 1967 so I wasn't quite

316
00:13:53,210 --> 00:13:51,000
part of that era but

317
00:13:57,769 --> 00:13:53,220
you know the Olympics that happened in

318
00:14:00,350 --> 00:13:57,779
Melbourne just 10 years before 1956

319
00:14:03,170 --> 00:14:00,360
and so it was a real time for Australia

320
00:14:05,750 --> 00:14:03,180
if you like coming out of the dark days

321
00:14:07,730 --> 00:14:05,760
of the second world war coming out of

322
00:14:10,250 --> 00:14:07,740
the the terrible time that that was for

323
00:14:11,750 --> 00:14:10,260
so many people so many people going to

324
00:14:14,269 --> 00:14:11,760
war and losing their lives or being

325
00:14:16,790 --> 00:14:14,279
injured families being affected the

326
00:14:19,550 --> 00:14:16,800
Australian economy being affected

327
00:14:21,410 --> 00:14:19,560
and after the war finished Australia's

328
00:14:23,870 --> 00:14:21,420
population began to grow really quite

329
00:14:26,810 --> 00:14:23,880
quickly a lot of post-war immigration

330
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:26,820
coming of course from the United Kingdom

331
00:14:31,910 --> 00:14:29,279
but other parts of Europe southern

332
00:14:35,090 --> 00:14:31,920
Europe in particular places like Italy

333
00:14:38,690 --> 00:14:35,100
and Greece and Yugoslavia and Malta and

334
00:14:41,689 --> 00:14:38,700
Albania and that changed Australian

335
00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:41,699
society and changed it quite quickly

336
00:14:46,970 --> 00:14:43,680
so there was a real excitement I think

337
00:14:49,629 --> 00:14:46,980
in Australia in the 1960s lots of things

338
00:14:54,350 --> 00:14:49,639
were changing in terms of social mores

339
00:14:57,949 --> 00:14:54,360
sexual mores the breakdown eventually of

340
00:14:59,689 --> 00:14:57,959
of more sort of authoritarian structures

341
00:15:02,629 --> 00:14:59,699
things were beginning to happen within

342
00:15:05,150 --> 00:15:02,639
the political world within Australia as

343
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:05,160
well changes in in government in terms

344
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:06,959
of political parties

345
00:15:12,230 --> 00:15:09,360
but also at the same time of course you

346
00:15:15,490 --> 00:15:12,240
had the beginnings of the Vietnam War

347
00:15:20,509 --> 00:15:15,500
and in Australia we had conscription

348
00:15:22,250 --> 00:15:20,519
introduced uh for the Vietnam War and So

349
00:15:24,110 --> 00:15:22,260
at around this time you had the

350
00:15:26,750 --> 00:15:24,120
beginnings of Australian troops

351
00:15:28,970 --> 00:15:26,760
beginning to go over to Vietnam you had

352
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:28,980
the lottery system coming out when

353
00:15:34,670 --> 00:15:31,199
numbers were being drawn out of a barrel

354
00:15:36,850 --> 00:15:34,680
and if your number came up you were

355
00:15:40,670 --> 00:15:36,860
conscripted into the Australian military

356
00:15:43,069 --> 00:15:40,680
and could possibly see service in this

357
00:15:45,710 --> 00:15:43,079
far away Country That Wasn't So Far Away

358
00:15:48,170 --> 00:15:45,720
geographically from Australia but

359
00:15:50,569 --> 00:15:48,180
culturally and socially it was so

360
00:15:52,490 --> 00:15:50,579
different and most Australians had no

361
00:15:55,009 --> 00:15:52,500
experience of that part of the world and

362
00:15:58,430 --> 00:15:55,019
probably really had no idea what the war

363
00:16:00,530 --> 00:15:58,440
was all about

364
00:16:03,769 --> 00:16:00,540
um so you had all of that

365
00:16:05,930 --> 00:16:03,779
part of the part of the milieu but in

366
00:16:08,329 --> 00:16:05,940
terms of the school settings at that

367
00:16:11,210 --> 00:16:08,339
time in Australia you know schools were

368
00:16:14,870 --> 00:16:11,220
still pretty authoritarian

369
00:16:19,670 --> 00:16:14,880
teachers Headmasters ruled with the

370
00:16:22,250 --> 00:16:19,680
pretty strong fist if you like and that

371
00:16:24,050 --> 00:16:22,260
becomes really relevant to the story at

372
00:16:26,449 --> 00:16:24,060
westall because

373
00:16:29,150 --> 00:16:26,459
the rules were well known at westall the

374
00:16:31,730 --> 00:16:29,160
Headmaster at the time of the high

375
00:16:35,509 --> 00:16:31,740
school at least Mr Frank sambalby was

376
00:16:38,870 --> 00:16:35,519
quite a a task master he was generally

377
00:16:41,090 --> 00:16:38,880
fairly feared by his charge charges the

378
00:16:42,470 --> 00:16:41,100
kids which was pretty common in schools

379
00:16:46,310 --> 00:16:42,480
at the time

380
00:16:49,389 --> 00:16:46,320
and the idea of going against the wishes

381
00:16:52,850 --> 00:16:49,399
of your teachers or the school rules and

382
00:16:55,490 --> 00:16:52,860
jumping fences and running across roads

383
00:16:57,230 --> 00:16:55,500
and running through Market Gardens and

384
00:17:00,050 --> 00:16:57,240
chasing after

385
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:00,060
these flying sauces in the air

386
00:17:04,130 --> 00:17:02,639
and trying to follow them and trying to

387
00:17:06,169 --> 00:17:04,140
go to the place where you had seen them

388
00:17:08,329 --> 00:17:06,179
come down and land

389
00:17:11,390 --> 00:17:08,339
well to do such I think of course was

390
00:17:14,650 --> 00:17:11,400
completely anathema at that time

391
00:17:18,890 --> 00:17:14,660
but dozens possibly more than dozens

392
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:18,900
maybe a hundred or so kids did exactly

393
00:17:34,730 --> 00:17:19,919
that

394
00:17:36,830 --> 00:17:34,740
one of the kids shared with me in recent

395
00:17:38,510 --> 00:17:36,840
years and I've given each of these

396
00:17:42,289 --> 00:17:38,520
little stories just a very quick title

397
00:17:44,870 --> 00:17:42,299
and this is from a girl called Patsy who

398
00:17:47,870 --> 00:17:44,880
was informed to the second year of

399
00:17:51,650 --> 00:17:47,880
secondary school so she was about 13 or

400
00:17:54,110 --> 00:17:51,660
14 years old and she said to me Shane it

401
00:17:55,970 --> 00:17:54,120
started with a commotion

402
00:17:58,370 --> 00:17:55,980
I would like to give you my recollection

403
00:18:01,490 --> 00:17:58,380
of the events on the day of the west or

404
00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:01,500
UFO sighting it began with a lot of

405
00:18:06,049 --> 00:18:04,440
commotion in the corridor with students

406
00:18:09,529 --> 00:18:06,059
running from classroom to classroom

407
00:18:11,390 --> 00:18:09,539
yelling flying sauces flying sources

408
00:18:14,450 --> 00:18:11,400
I hurried along with everyone else to

409
00:18:16,130 --> 00:18:14,460
the sports oval and sure enough there

410
00:18:19,789 --> 00:18:16,140
were UFOs

411
00:18:22,330 --> 00:18:19,799
silver circular domed shape

412
00:18:25,730 --> 00:18:22,340
not like anything I'd ever seen before

413
00:18:27,950 --> 00:18:25,740
hovering above us if memory serves me

414
00:18:28,909 --> 00:18:27,960
correct there was also a dull humming

415
00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:28,919
sound

416
00:18:33,350 --> 00:18:31,440
I recall the UFO made a sudden movement

417
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:33,360
I screamed because I thought it was

418
00:18:39,350 --> 00:18:36,240
going to swoop but it just tilted

419
00:18:42,350 --> 00:18:39,360
sped off at great speed and disappeared

420
00:18:43,669 --> 00:18:42,360
in the direction of several aircraft in

421
00:18:45,770 --> 00:18:43,679
the sky

422
00:18:49,789 --> 00:18:45,780
the aircraft appeared to be following

423
00:18:51,529 --> 00:18:49,799
the UFOs until they also disappeared my

424
00:18:54,650 --> 00:18:51,539
friends and I were curious about the UFO

425
00:18:57,830 --> 00:18:54,660
landing in the Grange the grains was

426
00:19:00,590 --> 00:18:57,840
this area an old Farmland a couple of

427
00:19:01,730 --> 00:19:00,600
hundred meters south of the school

428
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:01,740
property

429
00:19:07,130 --> 00:19:04,799
so Patsy goes on to say that we venture

430
00:19:08,930 --> 00:19:07,140
to the clearing at the Grange to find

431
00:19:11,210 --> 00:19:08,940
circular patches of flattened grass

432
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:11,220
later that day we were called to a

433
00:19:16,070 --> 00:19:14,400
general assembly to be told not to talk

434
00:19:19,070 --> 00:19:16,080
to the media

435
00:19:20,870 --> 00:19:19,080
about the sighting some students ignored

436
00:19:23,810 --> 00:19:20,880
the principal's warning and spoke to the

437
00:19:25,130 --> 00:19:23,820
media men arrived at our school in

438
00:19:26,750 --> 00:19:25,140
fatigues

439
00:19:28,190 --> 00:19:26,760
couldn't tell you what part of the

440
00:19:31,010 --> 00:19:28,200
Australian Defense Force they were from

441
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:31,020
but they were in fatigues

442
00:19:37,730 --> 00:19:33,360
hundreds of us had witnessed an awesome

443
00:19:41,029 --> 00:19:37,740
event a UFO sighting to this day no one

444
00:19:45,289 --> 00:19:41,039
can convince me otherwise I know what I

445
00:19:48,190 --> 00:19:45,299
saw I have had a UFO encounter

446
00:19:53,450 --> 00:19:50,930
by the name of Phyllis who was a year

447
00:19:55,070 --> 00:19:53,460
older was in form three so she was about

448
00:19:57,830 --> 00:19:55,080
15 years old

449
00:20:00,169 --> 00:19:57,840
and she gave me

450
00:20:02,690 --> 00:20:00,179
a little bit of a story from a different

451
00:20:04,850 --> 00:20:02,700
Vantage Point everyone was standing in a

452
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:04,860
slightly different place at a slightly

453
00:20:08,570 --> 00:20:07,200
different time and all the kids and all

454
00:20:10,430 --> 00:20:08,580
the witnesses were slightly different

455
00:20:13,370 --> 00:20:10,440
people so different personalities

456
00:20:15,049 --> 00:20:13,380
different ages and so of course the

457
00:20:17,870 --> 00:20:15,059
accounts vary a little bit in some of

458
00:20:20,450 --> 00:20:17,880
the detail and I guess it's been my job

459
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:20,460
over the years as the researcher to try

460
00:20:25,549 --> 00:20:22,260
to put all of those pieces off the

461
00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:25,559
jigsaw puzzle together to make a more

462
00:20:31,450 --> 00:20:27,919
coherent story not to gloss over

463
00:20:35,090 --> 00:20:31,460
differences not to ignore differences

464
00:20:37,669 --> 00:20:35,100
but just to get a a clearer easier

465
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,679
handle on what it might have been that

466
00:20:42,830 --> 00:20:39,600
actually happened that day

467
00:20:46,549 --> 00:20:42,840
and Phyllis wrote that one UFO appeared

468
00:20:49,010 --> 00:20:46,559
above me and another two further over at

469
00:20:52,190 --> 00:20:49,020
the other end of the oval they all look

470
00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:52,200
the same silver in color this shaped

471
00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:55,200
with a dome top they hovered above what

472
00:20:59,510 --> 00:20:57,360
seemed like a couple of minutes then

473
00:21:02,510 --> 00:20:59,520
tilted and sped off at extraordinary

474
00:21:04,490 --> 00:21:02,520
speed and disappeared over the pine

475
00:21:08,210 --> 00:21:04,500
trees at the Grange

476
00:21:10,490 --> 00:21:08,220
after school myself and another group of

477
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:10,500
local kids ran to the Grange and

478
00:21:16,970 --> 00:21:13,679
witnessed three flat and circular spots

479
00:21:18,169 --> 00:21:16,980
all singed around the outer edge in the

480
00:21:21,289 --> 00:21:18,179
paddocks

481
00:21:22,430 --> 00:21:21,299
how do you tell 15 year olds they did

482
00:21:25,130 --> 00:21:22,440
not see anything

483
00:21:28,070 --> 00:21:25,140
or what they saw were weather balloons

484
00:21:30,529 --> 00:21:28,080
we know what we saw and will never

485
00:21:33,409 --> 00:21:30,539
forget the profound effect it had on us

486
00:21:35,450 --> 00:21:33,419
on all of us

487
00:21:38,289 --> 00:21:35,460
so these are kids writing to me over the

488
00:21:41,690 --> 00:21:38,299
years mostly by email

489
00:21:42,649 --> 00:21:41,700
mostly kids who had had no contact with

490
00:21:45,289 --> 00:21:42,659
each other

491
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:45,299
since this day

492
00:21:51,230 --> 00:21:47,039
and

493
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:51,240
remember when I first started contacting

494
00:21:56,510 --> 00:21:53,520
people it was mostly by telephone

495
00:21:58,130 --> 00:21:56,520
and I would speak to these Witnesses and

496
00:21:59,330 --> 00:21:58,140
sometimes there was a little bit of a

497
00:22:01,970 --> 00:21:59,340
hesitancy

498
00:22:05,810 --> 00:22:01,980
when I was starting up the conversation

499
00:22:08,270 --> 00:22:05,820
because a lot of these adults but as

500
00:22:10,909 --> 00:22:08,280
kids had been told in very no uncertain

501
00:22:12,110 --> 00:22:10,919
terms this was a story that was not to

502
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:12,120
be talked about

503
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:15,120
this was a story that a lid was meant to

504
00:22:20,870 --> 00:22:18,240
be kept on they were told this many of

505
00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:20,880
them not all but many of them quite

506
00:22:25,430 --> 00:22:23,760
directly and even for those who tried to

507
00:22:27,409 --> 00:22:25,440
talk about it later on perhaps when they

508
00:22:29,090 --> 00:22:27,419
were a bit older and married and had

509
00:22:30,110 --> 00:22:29,100
families of their own spouses of Their

510
00:22:33,049 --> 00:22:30,120
Own

511
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:33,059
were going out to the workforce and had

512
00:22:40,310 --> 00:22:34,559
work mates

513
00:22:44,570 --> 00:22:40,320
uh sometimes they'd be met with just

514
00:22:47,270 --> 00:22:44,580
ridicule sometimes or just people not

515
00:22:49,190 --> 00:22:47,280
wanting to accept what they were saying

516
00:22:51,289 --> 00:22:49,200
at face value that they couldn't accept

517
00:22:53,810 --> 00:22:51,299
it at face value

518
00:22:55,730 --> 00:22:53,820
and they learned very quickly to keep

519
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:55,740
the story to themselves

520
00:22:59,870 --> 00:22:57,840
and so when I contacted them quite a lot

521
00:23:01,850 --> 00:22:59,880
of them would say to me Shane is it okay

522
00:23:05,390 --> 00:23:01,860
for me to talk about this now

523
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:05,400
because we were told that it wasn't or I

524
00:23:08,510 --> 00:23:06,960
tried to talk about it and just nobody

525
00:23:11,510 --> 00:23:08,520
wanted to know

526
00:23:13,490 --> 00:23:11,520
but I said to them I want to know just

527
00:23:15,350 --> 00:23:13,500
tell me and I'm not here to make a

528
00:23:17,930 --> 00:23:15,360
judgment I'm not here to make a buck out

529
00:23:20,029 --> 00:23:17,940
of it I'm not here to prove one thing

530
00:23:21,049 --> 00:23:20,039
one way or the other I just want to hear

531
00:23:24,289 --> 00:23:21,059
your story

532
00:23:27,289 --> 00:23:24,299
and they would tell me their story

533
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,299
and watching the documentary that comes

534
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:29,280
across the the kind of fear that's put

535
00:23:33,289 --> 00:23:31,200
into the children and the teachers in

536
00:23:35,570 --> 00:23:33,299
the immediate aftermath of the event and

537
00:23:37,310 --> 00:23:35,580
you as you say the the military who

538
00:23:39,110 --> 00:23:37,320
turned up that weren't easily

539
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:39,120
identifiable

540
00:23:42,710 --> 00:23:40,799
um I believe within the documentary

541
00:23:44,990 --> 00:23:42,720
you're told that you know there

542
00:23:48,470 --> 00:23:45,000
shouldn't have been any military on that

543
00:23:51,169 --> 00:23:48,480
scale available at such short notice to

544
00:23:52,850 --> 00:23:51,179
just appear when they did too so clearly

545
00:23:54,649 --> 00:23:52,860
you know something was going on that

546
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:54,659
they wanted to cover up or any means

547
00:24:01,370 --> 00:23:58,559
necessary at the time where UFOs seen as

548
00:24:04,310 --> 00:24:01,380
a bit of a I don't know was it you know

549
00:24:06,350 --> 00:24:04,320
just pure fancy as a conversation but

550
00:24:09,169 --> 00:24:06,360
what was the culture in Australia around

551
00:24:11,330 --> 00:24:09,179
UFOs in the mid 60s

552
00:24:13,010 --> 00:24:11,340
I think the culture probably wasn't that

553
00:24:16,010 --> 00:24:13,020
different from the culture in the United

554
00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:16,020
Kingdom or most other English-speaking

555
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:17,760
countries I'm not sure about other

556
00:24:22,070 --> 00:24:19,919
non-english speaking countries but it

557
00:24:25,070 --> 00:24:22,080
probably wasn't vastly different I mean

558
00:24:28,730 --> 00:24:25,080
Australian Society in the mid 60s was

559
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:28,740
still pretty British in many ways I mean

560
00:24:32,810 --> 00:24:30,840
chunks of it were Irish as well of

561
00:24:35,409 --> 00:24:32,820
course a lot of Irish immigration to

562
00:24:39,710 --> 00:24:35,419
Australia including my own family

563
00:24:41,870 --> 00:24:39,720
but very uh anglo-celtic culture

564
00:24:44,630 --> 00:24:41,880
uh the beginning of multiculturalism

565
00:24:49,549 --> 00:24:44,640
culturism was happening at this time

566
00:24:51,649 --> 00:24:49,559
really from the the 60s onwards but I

567
00:24:54,169 --> 00:24:51,659
think you know how people responded to

568
00:24:56,750 --> 00:24:54,179
the topic of UFOs probably varied a bit

569
00:25:00,169 --> 00:24:56,760
of course from family to family person

570
00:25:01,850 --> 00:25:00,179
to person but you know people were aware

571
00:25:04,610 --> 00:25:01,860
of

572
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:04,620
um science fiction it was beginning to

573
00:25:09,890 --> 00:25:06,720
appear on TV of course

574
00:25:12,830 --> 00:25:09,900
things like uh you know Star Trek and

575
00:25:16,490 --> 00:25:12,840
Doctor Who and and of course the movies

576
00:25:18,310 --> 00:25:16,500
and the comic books before that so it

577
00:25:21,470 --> 00:25:18,320
wasn't something that was completely

578
00:25:23,570 --> 00:25:21,480
unknown to people I think a better way

579
00:25:25,730 --> 00:25:23,580
of talking about it was it was something

580
00:25:27,470 --> 00:25:25,740
that was unexpected

581
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:27,480
and it wasn't something that people

582
00:25:33,289 --> 00:25:30,480
expected to encounter for the most part

583
00:25:35,630 --> 00:25:33,299
in their daily lives it wasn't something

584
00:25:37,850 --> 00:25:35,640
that people expected to encounter when

585
00:25:39,830 --> 00:25:37,860
they were just trying to go to school as

586
00:25:42,169 --> 00:25:39,840
a student or as a teacher or trying to

587
00:25:44,750 --> 00:25:42,179
go about their daily work as a market

588
00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:44,760
Gardener or a factory hand or whatever

589
00:25:50,029 --> 00:25:47,279
people were doing it was something that

590
00:25:53,029 --> 00:25:50,039
was I guess it belonged to

591
00:25:56,390 --> 00:25:53,039
the cinema belonged to TV

592
00:25:58,850 --> 00:25:56,400
and when it actually happened in real

593
00:26:01,370 --> 00:25:58,860
life to these people

594
00:26:04,909 --> 00:26:01,380
I think it came as a great shock for

595
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:04,919
some it was very exciting for summer was

596
00:26:09,710 --> 00:26:07,200
more traumatic

597
00:26:11,930 --> 00:26:09,720
for many it was something in between

598
00:26:15,890 --> 00:26:11,940
the reason I often refer to it as the

599
00:26:18,890 --> 00:26:15,900
1966 West all flying saucer incident is

600
00:26:21,710 --> 00:26:18,900
because that was probably the more

601
00:26:25,370 --> 00:26:21,720
common parlance at the time in the 60s

602
00:26:28,250 --> 00:26:25,380
Flying Saucer rather than UFO

603
00:26:30,830 --> 00:26:28,260
and also that's the expression that a

604
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:30,840
lot of the witnesses used at the time

605
00:26:36,409 --> 00:26:35,039
and when I spoke to them and and they

606
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:36,419
used that

607
00:26:41,690 --> 00:26:38,640
partly because it was an expression that

608
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:41,700
was already part of the culture

609
00:26:47,210 --> 00:26:44,279
sure but it also it matched in a way

610
00:26:48,950 --> 00:26:47,220
what people were saying when most of the

611
00:26:51,529 --> 00:26:48,960
witnesses describe what they saw at West

612
00:26:55,010 --> 00:26:51,539
or they describe it as being like two

613
00:26:57,890 --> 00:26:55,020
sources joined to together at the lips

614
00:26:59,330 --> 00:26:57,900
at the edges or a bowl sitting on a

615
00:27:01,370 --> 00:26:59,340
saucer

616
00:27:04,549 --> 00:27:01,380
um something elliptical

617
00:27:07,250 --> 00:27:04,559
and and maybe when it moved into a

618
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:07,260
particular position and have a more of

619
00:27:13,250 --> 00:27:12,000
an elongated sort of a cigar shaped uh

620
00:27:15,529 --> 00:27:13,260
form

621
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:15,539
but they refer to it as a flying saucer

622
00:27:18,890 --> 00:27:16,799
because

623
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:18,900
that's what it looked like and I like to

624
00:27:23,210 --> 00:27:20,640
use that word because that's come from

625
00:27:26,269 --> 00:27:23,220
them and because for me it captures also

626
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:26,279
the sense of of those years

627
00:27:30,529 --> 00:27:28,799
but I'm glad you brought up Andy that

628
00:27:32,570 --> 00:27:30,539
sense of

629
00:27:35,690 --> 00:27:32,580
um

630
00:27:36,890 --> 00:27:35,700
Authority that existed at that time in

631
00:27:39,289 --> 00:27:36,900
Australia

632
00:27:42,409 --> 00:27:39,299
and

633
00:27:44,390 --> 00:27:42,419
um you also brought up the notion of how

634
00:27:46,549 --> 00:27:44,400
people in Australia at that time would

635
00:27:48,409 --> 00:27:46,559
react to seeing something like this how

636
00:27:51,370 --> 00:27:48,419
accepting would they be

637
00:27:55,570 --> 00:27:51,380
and I have another account here of

638
00:27:57,890 --> 00:27:55,580
the I call it what the caretakers saw

639
00:28:00,649 --> 00:27:57,900
westall High School it had two

640
00:28:03,289 --> 00:28:00,659
caretakers a married couple and their

641
00:28:04,730 --> 00:28:03,299
job was to look after the the physical

642
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,740
aspects of the school they were

643
00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:06,240
gardeners they were cleaners they were

644
00:28:11,330 --> 00:28:08,880
maintenance people and for years I tried

645
00:28:13,730 --> 00:28:11,340
to track them down because their house

646
00:28:16,610 --> 00:28:13,740
was on the school property and I thought

647
00:28:20,450 --> 00:28:16,620
if anybody saw something that day maybe

648
00:28:23,149 --> 00:28:20,460
they did it took me years to find not

649
00:28:25,789 --> 00:28:23,159
them because they'd passed away but some

650
00:28:28,730 --> 00:28:25,799
of their children and this is what I

651
00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:28,740
wrote about that story a few years ago

652
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:30,960
and after 11 years of looking at that

653
00:28:35,210 --> 00:28:33,360
time I finally made contact with two of

654
00:28:39,169 --> 00:28:35,220
the children of the westall high school

655
00:28:40,970 --> 00:28:39,179
caretakers Mr and Mrs Sykes George and

656
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:40,980
Doris

657
00:28:45,710 --> 00:28:43,440
they were both passed away at that point

658
00:28:48,169 --> 00:28:45,720
given that the Sykes family parents and

659
00:28:50,570 --> 00:28:48,179
three children Marilyn Raylene and Kim

660
00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:50,580
lived in a house on the property of the

661
00:28:54,769 --> 00:28:52,799
school and that the two younger children

662
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:54,779
were students at the westall state

663
00:28:59,810 --> 00:28:56,880
school I was very keen to know what the

664
00:29:02,930 --> 00:28:59,820
parents at least may have seen and as it

665
00:29:05,450 --> 00:29:02,940
turns out Mr Sykes was a witness to the

666
00:29:07,490 --> 00:29:05,460
Flying Saucer and he was adamant it was

667
00:29:09,289 --> 00:29:07,500
nothing ordinary

668
00:29:11,390 --> 00:29:09,299
noting that the Sykes house was and

669
00:29:13,130 --> 00:29:11,400
still is on the school property and

670
00:29:16,070 --> 00:29:13,140
facing the main street that goes through

671
00:29:18,350 --> 00:29:16,080
westall the Flying Saucer a Barrack are

672
00:29:21,769 --> 00:29:18,360
basically flew directly over their house

673
00:29:23,990 --> 00:29:21,779
flying from north to south

674
00:29:26,090 --> 00:29:24,000
Raylene their daughter who was 10 years

675
00:29:28,490 --> 00:29:26,100
old at the time recalled that her dad

676
00:29:30,889 --> 00:29:28,500
was on the oval at the time as were a

677
00:29:33,889 --> 00:29:30,899
lot of the kids and saw something very

678
00:29:36,409 --> 00:29:33,899
unusual that was not a plane

679
00:29:38,990 --> 00:29:36,419
George went to the Headmaster Frank sand

680
00:29:41,930 --> 00:29:39,000
will be went to his office and told him

681
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:41,940
what he had seen and then was given the

682
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:46,080
task to help lock down the school

683
00:29:51,590 --> 00:29:48,960
he described the object as metallic and

684
00:29:54,889 --> 00:29:51,600
round and that it had hovered for a few

685
00:29:57,889 --> 00:29:54,899
seconds and that it had landed on or at

686
00:30:00,769 --> 00:29:57,899
least hovered very low over the back of

687
00:30:03,110 --> 00:30:00,779
the school oval on the school property

688
00:30:06,289 --> 00:30:03,120
on the other side of the oval from there

689
00:30:10,190 --> 00:30:06,299
where their house was located before it

690
00:30:13,130 --> 00:30:10,200
shot off very fast up into the sky

691
00:30:16,130 --> 00:30:13,140
police came to the school and Raylene

692
00:30:18,169 --> 00:30:16,140
had some memory of Aviation authorities

693
00:30:19,490 --> 00:30:18,179
coming to the school and examining the

694
00:30:21,769 --> 00:30:19,500
ground there

695
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:21,779
the story got shut down very quickly and

696
00:30:24,590 --> 00:30:23,760
George was instructed not to talk about

697
00:30:26,510 --> 00:30:24,600
it

698
00:30:28,010 --> 00:30:26,520
George was apparently something of a

699
00:30:31,789 --> 00:30:28,020
wreck on tour

700
00:30:34,190 --> 00:30:31,799
and he always loved to tell a good story

701
00:30:38,510 --> 00:30:34,200
but he instructed his family that this

702
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:40,789
his older daughter Marilyn who was 21

703
00:30:44,930 --> 00:30:42,480
years old at the time

704
00:30:47,269 --> 00:30:44,940
she remembers that attempts afterwards

705
00:30:49,610 --> 00:30:47,279
to get their parents to talk about what

706
00:30:52,010 --> 00:30:49,620
they had seen what had happened were

707
00:30:55,250 --> 00:30:52,020
never successful

708
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:55,260
right lane recalled that Doris or George

709
00:30:59,810 --> 00:30:57,840
mum or dad had walked her and her

710
00:31:00,590 --> 00:30:59,820
brother Kim who was nine years old at

711
00:31:03,110 --> 00:31:00,600
the time

712
00:31:05,389 --> 00:31:03,120
home that afternoon from west or state

713
00:31:08,269 --> 00:31:05,399
school which they didn't normally do and

714
00:31:10,610 --> 00:31:08,279
they did that to protect the kids from

715
00:31:15,889 --> 00:31:10,620
the media that had begun to gather

716
00:31:21,409 --> 00:31:19,070
and when Marilyn oh and also I must

717
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:21,419
mention Raylene also remembered that she

718
00:31:25,610 --> 00:31:23,039
heard that an ambulance had come to

719
00:31:27,889 --> 00:31:25,620
school to the high school that day as

720
00:31:30,049 --> 00:31:27,899
well because at least one possibly two

721
00:31:32,450 --> 00:31:30,059
of the students had fallen ill

722
00:31:34,190 --> 00:31:32,460
but when Marilyn the older daughter 21

723
00:31:36,350 --> 00:31:34,200
years old arrived home later that

724
00:31:38,750 --> 00:31:36,360
evening from work she had to negotiate

725
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:38,760
her way through the media the media pack

726
00:31:43,549 --> 00:31:40,559
outside the school property

727
00:31:46,490 --> 00:31:43,559
and the Headmaster Frank sambleby

728
00:31:47,570 --> 00:31:46,500
actually came to dinner that night to

729
00:31:50,149 --> 00:31:47,580
their house

730
00:31:52,909 --> 00:31:50,159
and he parked his car in their driveway

731
00:31:54,649 --> 00:31:52,919
which was something he never did as he

732
00:31:56,389 --> 00:31:54,659
always parked in the driveway over the

733
00:31:58,490 --> 00:31:56,399
fence on the school side

734
00:32:00,409 --> 00:31:58,500
closer to his office but on this

735
00:32:01,909 --> 00:32:00,419
occasion he didn't want to be noticed by

736
00:32:04,130 --> 00:32:01,919
the media

737
00:32:05,810 --> 00:32:04,140
after dinner Marilyn recalled that

738
00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:05,820
George and Frank went outside to the

739
00:32:08,930 --> 00:32:07,679
oval and that they were there for a very

740
00:32:10,970 --> 00:32:08,940
long time

741
00:32:14,269 --> 00:32:10,980
Raylene remembered Frank as a very good

742
00:32:15,710 --> 00:32:14,279
man a lovely man but that he was

743
00:32:19,370 --> 00:32:15,720
probably lent on

744
00:32:21,409 --> 00:32:19,380
by whoever it was that came to his

745
00:32:23,810 --> 00:32:21,419
office later

746
00:32:26,510 --> 00:32:23,820
in response to the incident

747
00:32:28,730 --> 00:32:26,520
and the daughters regret that they

748
00:32:31,250 --> 00:32:28,740
didn't try more in their parents later

749
00:32:35,510 --> 00:32:31,260
years to get them to talk again about

750
00:32:38,090 --> 00:32:35,520
what had transpired that day at westall

751
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:38,100
you mentioned that Ambulance with the

752
00:32:42,409 --> 00:32:40,320
two pupils potentially falling ill one

753
00:32:45,110 --> 00:32:42,419
or two was there any assumption or

754
00:32:48,110 --> 00:32:45,120
presumption that they had fallen ill as

755
00:32:49,549 --> 00:32:48,120
in relation to the event itself or was

756
00:32:51,230 --> 00:32:49,559
it something separate as far as your

757
00:32:53,450 --> 00:32:51,240
aware

758
00:32:56,029 --> 00:32:53,460
well the story that's been told to me by

759
00:32:58,510 --> 00:32:56,039
quite a few Witnesses who remember

760
00:33:01,810 --> 00:32:58,520
literally remember seeing the ambulance

761
00:33:04,250 --> 00:33:01,820
come to the school to the high school

762
00:33:07,130 --> 00:33:04,260
parking in the driveway

763
00:33:09,289 --> 00:33:07,140
uh they they link it directly to the

764
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:09,299
Flying Saucer incident and the story

765
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:10,799
that's been told over the years most

766
00:33:15,230 --> 00:33:13,440
particular there are two female students

767
00:33:17,630 --> 00:33:15,240
that have been mentioned to me over the

768
00:33:21,230 --> 00:33:17,640
years as being adversely affected by

769
00:33:24,350 --> 00:33:21,240
what they saw and uh

770
00:33:27,830 --> 00:33:24,360
um two of them in particular needing

771
00:33:31,630 --> 00:33:27,840
Medical Aid and at least one of them

772
00:33:34,370 --> 00:33:31,640
being transported Away by ambulance

773
00:33:36,529 --> 00:33:34,380
there was a third girl that was named to

774
00:33:39,529 --> 00:33:36,539
me by other students as having been

775
00:33:43,029 --> 00:33:39,539
affected that day as well I was able to

776
00:33:46,490 --> 00:33:43,039
trace her eventually and unfortunately

777
00:33:48,130 --> 00:33:46,500
because she had had as some teenagers

778
00:33:51,529 --> 00:33:48,140
did in those years

779
00:33:52,610 --> 00:33:51,539
electroconvulsive therapy for treatment

780
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:52,620
for

781
00:33:58,669 --> 00:33:55,679
uh mental disorders as it would have

782
00:34:00,710 --> 00:33:58,679
been called in those days her memories

783
00:34:02,990 --> 00:34:00,720
up until that time had all virtually

784
00:34:04,970 --> 00:34:03,000
been wiped and although she remembered

785
00:34:07,070 --> 00:34:04,980
being at westall high school and had

786
00:34:09,829 --> 00:34:07,080
some memories of this flying saucerer

787
00:34:11,690 --> 00:34:09,839
event she had no specific memories of

788
00:34:14,210 --> 00:34:11,700
what happened to her that day

789
00:34:18,349 --> 00:34:14,220
but there was another girl by the name

790
00:34:21,169 --> 00:34:18,359
of Tanya who was identified by name by

791
00:34:24,430 --> 00:34:21,179
several students as having been affected

792
00:34:27,710 --> 00:34:24,440
and having been taken away by ambulance

793
00:34:31,010 --> 00:34:27,720
and in more recent years I've been able

794
00:34:34,010 --> 00:34:31,020
to contact Tanya she's alive and she's

795
00:34:37,010 --> 00:34:34,020
well and she tells an amazing story of

796
00:34:39,889 --> 00:34:37,020
in her mind being the first student on

797
00:34:42,190 --> 00:34:39,899
the oval that morning who noticed the

798
00:34:45,169 --> 00:34:42,200
UFOs as they flew in

799
00:34:47,990 --> 00:34:45,179
and she remembers running after them

800
00:34:50,450 --> 00:34:48,000
down to the Grange chasing them because

801
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:50,460
so many of them had seen the flying

802
00:34:55,129 --> 00:34:53,040
sauces fly down to the Grange descend

803
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:55,139
behind the pine trees they had a fair

804
00:34:59,089 --> 00:34:57,359
idea of where they had come down but

805
00:35:01,910 --> 00:34:59,099
most students didn't get down there in

806
00:35:04,130 --> 00:35:01,920
time to see them or ended up going to a

807
00:35:06,770 --> 00:35:04,140
slightly different place and Tanya

808
00:35:08,750 --> 00:35:06,780
doesn't remember being I remember seeing

809
00:35:10,370 --> 00:35:08,760
them on the ground she says that she

810
00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,380
doesn't she didn't see them she didn't

811
00:35:14,210 --> 00:35:12,480
find them

812
00:35:15,410 --> 00:35:14,220
um she has no memory of how she got back

813
00:35:17,030 --> 00:35:15,420
to the school

814
00:35:18,890 --> 00:35:17,040
and although she doesn't have any

815
00:35:21,290 --> 00:35:18,900
memories herself specifically of being

816
00:35:23,150 --> 00:35:21,300
taken away in an ambulance

817
00:35:24,349 --> 00:35:23,160
she's listened to the accounts of so

818
00:35:26,030 --> 00:35:24,359
many of the other students who were

819
00:35:29,390 --> 00:35:26,040
there that day that have a memory of

820
00:35:30,349 --> 00:35:29,400
that and she concedes that it may have

821
00:35:33,170 --> 00:35:30,359
happened

822
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:33,180
and that for some reason she doesn't

823
00:35:39,530 --> 00:35:35,760
have a memory of it anymore

824
00:35:41,810 --> 00:35:39,540
and so I as the researcher just have to

825
00:35:43,910 --> 00:35:41,820
honor those different memories that

826
00:35:46,670 --> 00:35:43,920
don't quite concur

827
00:35:47,750 --> 00:35:46,680
and and just hold them somehow in

828
00:35:50,150 --> 00:35:47,760
balance

829
00:35:52,609 --> 00:35:50,160
and and stay open to more information

830
00:35:55,550 --> 00:35:52,619
coming forward at some point that might

831
00:35:58,250 --> 00:35:55,560
clear things up for for us

832
00:36:00,290 --> 00:35:58,260
you also mentioned people being lent on

833
00:36:03,230 --> 00:36:00,300
at the time including the head head

834
00:36:05,569 --> 00:36:03,240
teacher uh Frank cymbalby

835
00:36:07,609 --> 00:36:05,579
and I wonder is there any reports of

836
00:36:10,730 --> 00:36:07,619
these being your standard police

837
00:36:12,650 --> 00:36:10,740
officers uh military officials obviously

838
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:12,660
were told they're in fatigues but

839
00:36:16,430 --> 00:36:14,400
nothing more than that and it's also

840
00:36:18,470 --> 00:36:16,440
difficult for teachers and children to

841
00:36:20,270 --> 00:36:18,480
identify you know where they are from in

842
00:36:22,430 --> 00:36:20,280
the military but was there any reports

843
00:36:24,770 --> 00:36:22,440
of Men In Black type situations you know

844
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:24,780
people turning up inserts

845
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:27,839
questioning speaking to to various folks

846
00:36:36,410 --> 00:36:34,849
well it wouldn't be a real UFO story if

847
00:36:37,849 --> 00:36:36,420
there wasn't something like that I

848
00:36:39,410 --> 00:36:37,859
reckon

849
00:36:40,849 --> 00:36:39,420
um and who'd have thought even in

850
00:36:43,010 --> 00:36:40,859
Australia we would have something like

851
00:36:45,770 --> 00:36:43,020
men in black but it sounds like that we

852
00:36:47,329 --> 00:36:45,780
we did in relation to this I mean we

853
00:36:51,710 --> 00:36:47,339
certainly know that there was a military

854
00:36:53,630 --> 00:36:51,720
response of some sort to the school

855
00:36:55,670 --> 00:36:53,640
um because so many of the witnesses

856
00:36:57,410 --> 00:36:55,680
remember seeing people in military

857
00:37:01,069 --> 00:36:57,420
uniforms

858
00:37:04,849 --> 00:37:01,079
and also police officers

859
00:37:09,589 --> 00:37:04,859
and I for years tried to get a police

860
00:37:12,290 --> 00:37:09,599
officer who had let out to one of the

861
00:37:13,490 --> 00:37:12,300
witnesses that he knew what westall was

862
00:37:15,410 --> 00:37:13,500
all about

863
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:15,420
he would never admit to having been

864
00:37:21,470 --> 00:37:18,960
there that day and eventually not long

865
00:37:23,510 --> 00:37:21,480
before he passed away he eventually

866
00:37:27,770 --> 00:37:23,520
admitted to being part of the police

867
00:37:30,349 --> 00:37:27,780
response to westall that day which just

868
00:37:32,270 --> 00:37:30,359
confirmed what other Witnesses had said

869
00:37:34,430 --> 00:37:32,280
and many of the kids quite a few of the

870
00:37:35,930 --> 00:37:34,440
kids at westall high school actually in

871
00:37:37,550 --> 00:37:35,940
a few years after they left the high

872
00:37:40,069 --> 00:37:37,560
school went on to become police officers

873
00:37:42,050 --> 00:37:40,079
themselves or had parents in the police

874
00:37:44,150 --> 00:37:42,060
force and so they knew the police

875
00:37:46,730 --> 00:37:44,160
uniforms very well and they could

876
00:37:49,069 --> 00:37:46,740
distinguish them from other similar blue

877
00:37:51,589 --> 00:37:49,079
colored uniforms and they knew that they

878
00:37:54,410 --> 00:37:51,599
all those ones are probably Air Force

879
00:37:56,690 --> 00:37:54,420
they're definitely not police or they

880
00:37:58,609 --> 00:37:56,700
could identify them as being Army and

881
00:38:01,069 --> 00:37:58,619
not police

882
00:38:03,770 --> 00:38:01,079
but and we know for example that the Air

883
00:38:06,829 --> 00:38:03,780
Force officers turned up at westall high

884
00:38:10,370 --> 00:38:06,839
school and wanted to interview the male

885
00:38:12,650 --> 00:38:10,380
science teacher Andrew Greenwood and the

886
00:38:14,390 --> 00:38:12,660
Headmaster Frank zambleby wouldn't take

887
00:38:16,849 --> 00:38:14,400
Andrew out of class to meet with them

888
00:38:17,690 --> 00:38:16,859
and and wouldn't allow the meeting to

889
00:38:19,670 --> 00:38:17,700
happen

890
00:38:21,829 --> 00:38:19,680
and Frank Sam will be complained about

891
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,839
all these phone calls he was getting in

892
00:38:27,770 --> 00:38:23,760
the days a couple of days after the

893
00:38:29,329 --> 00:38:27,780
incident from the Air Force from UFO

894
00:38:32,270 --> 00:38:29,339
Society people

895
00:38:34,609 --> 00:38:32,280
and and he found that very upsetting and

896
00:38:36,650 --> 00:38:34,619
irritating because his main role of

897
00:38:38,569 --> 00:38:36,660
course was as the Headmaster to keep the

898
00:38:40,609 --> 00:38:38,579
school running and to protect the

899
00:38:42,650 --> 00:38:40,619
children and to protect the reputation

900
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:42,660
of the school and that was very much his

901
00:38:46,730 --> 00:38:43,680
Focus

902
00:38:48,950 --> 00:38:46,740
but the Air Force they were very keen on

903
00:38:50,870 --> 00:38:48,960
interviewing someone and we know that

904
00:38:53,750 --> 00:38:50,880
because Andrew Greenwood tells the story

905
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:53,760
of a week or two later and not coming on

906
00:38:59,030 --> 00:38:56,640
his door at his home and it was a

907
00:39:00,710 --> 00:38:59,040
high-ranking Air Force officer he knew

908
00:39:03,290 --> 00:39:00,720
he was relatively high ranking because

909
00:39:06,190 --> 00:39:03,300
he had bands around his sleeve and next

910
00:39:09,470 --> 00:39:06,200
to him was another person in

911
00:39:11,690 --> 00:39:09,480
civilian clothes in a suit but very much

912
00:39:15,530 --> 00:39:11,700
gave the air of being from the

913
00:39:16,910 --> 00:39:15,540
government short cropped hair nice suit

914
00:39:18,650 --> 00:39:16,920
and he thought they were coming around

915
00:39:20,750 --> 00:39:18,660
to take down more information about what

916
00:39:22,970 --> 00:39:20,760
he had seen because his account had

917
00:39:25,130 --> 00:39:22,980
already appeared in the local newspaper

918
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:25,140
but they were coming around to do quite

919
00:39:31,310 --> 00:39:29,040
the opposite and they came to say to him

920
00:39:32,510 --> 00:39:31,320
we don't want you talking about this Mr

921
00:39:34,910 --> 00:39:32,520
Greenwood

922
00:39:36,170 --> 00:39:34,920
there are no such things as UFOs we

923
00:39:38,630 --> 00:39:36,180
don't want you talking about flying

924
00:39:40,730 --> 00:39:38,640
sources and if you continue doing this

925
00:39:42,890 --> 00:39:40,740
then give more interviews like you did

926
00:39:44,990 --> 00:39:42,900
to the local newspaper we'll make sure

927
00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:45,000
that you don't teach again in this state

928
00:39:48,670 --> 00:39:47,280
this was his first year of teaching he

929
00:39:52,910 --> 00:39:48,680
was 20 years old

930
00:39:55,550 --> 00:39:52,920
and he said to me Shane as clear as this

931
00:39:58,849 --> 00:39:55,560
memory of seeing this UFO he remember

932
00:40:01,730 --> 00:39:58,859
seeing one in the sky that day this

933
00:40:04,310 --> 00:40:01,740
memory of these two goons he referred to

934
00:40:06,050 --> 00:40:04,320
them as coming around to his house and

935
00:40:09,349 --> 00:40:06,060
trying to pull the wall over his eyes

936
00:40:11,390 --> 00:40:09,359
was was very very very strong memory for

937
00:40:13,550 --> 00:40:11,400
him and he remember saying to these two

938
00:40:15,950 --> 00:40:13,560
men who are older than he was of course

939
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:15,960
so that was a bit intimidating and

940
00:40:19,490 --> 00:40:17,520
obviously from the government

941
00:40:20,870 --> 00:40:19,500
he remember saying to them well look if

942
00:40:23,870 --> 00:40:20,880
there are no such things as flying

943
00:40:25,609 --> 00:40:23,880
sauces why do you care if I say that

944
00:40:28,430 --> 00:40:25,619
I've seen one because you say they don't

945
00:40:30,109 --> 00:40:28,440
exist so what does it matter to you and

946
00:40:33,890 --> 00:40:30,119
he remembers them not receiving that

947
00:40:35,810 --> 00:40:33,900
response from him very well but it

948
00:40:37,550 --> 00:40:35,820
certainly shook him up and it shook him

949
00:40:39,770 --> 00:40:37,560
up and that's what has stayed with

950
00:40:41,870 --> 00:40:39,780
Andrew over the years

951
00:40:43,250 --> 00:40:41,880
of course seeing the Flying Saucer was

952
00:40:46,310 --> 00:40:43,260
something that was important to him and

953
00:40:48,829 --> 00:40:46,320
something that was amazing for him but

954
00:40:51,470 --> 00:40:48,839
it's always stayed with him why did it

955
00:40:52,790 --> 00:40:51,480
have to be kept quiet why couldn't it be

956
00:40:54,890 --> 00:40:52,800
spoken about

957
00:40:58,370 --> 00:40:54,900
and we know that there were other people

958
00:41:01,130 --> 00:40:58,380
who went out to the houses and to the

959
00:41:03,710 --> 00:41:01,140
market gardens around westall in the

960
00:41:06,589 --> 00:41:03,720
days after the sighting and these are

961
00:41:08,990 --> 00:41:06,599
the Men in Black if you like and who

962
00:41:11,569 --> 00:41:09,000
were they well of course I don't know

963
00:41:13,790 --> 00:41:11,579
all I know is the descriptions that

964
00:41:17,510 --> 00:41:13,800
people have given to me that they were

965
00:41:19,609 --> 00:41:17,520
men in suits they gave the impression of

966
00:41:21,829 --> 00:41:19,619
being from the government and they all

967
00:41:24,530 --> 00:41:21,839
came with one message and the message

968
00:41:26,750 --> 00:41:24,540
was you're not to talk about this

969
00:41:28,790 --> 00:41:26,760
and I have a very short story here and

970
00:41:31,910 --> 00:41:28,800
I've I've called it if these weather

971
00:41:35,630 --> 00:41:31,920
boards could talk in Australia weather

972
00:41:38,750 --> 00:41:35,640
boards refers to the weather the timber

973
00:41:41,150 --> 00:41:38,760
cladding on homes in Australia on our

974
00:41:43,010 --> 00:41:41,160
traditional bungalow houses that were

975
00:41:46,490 --> 00:41:43,020
mostly made out of wood up until the

976
00:41:48,829 --> 00:41:46,500
1960s and the houses around westall were

977
00:41:50,329 --> 00:41:48,839
very much from that era built in the 50s

978
00:41:53,210 --> 00:41:50,339
and the 60s

979
00:41:56,750 --> 00:41:53,220
and I wrote within hours of the events

980
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:56,760
of the 6th of April 1966 two men in

981
00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:59,520
suits walked to the front door of a

982
00:42:03,710 --> 00:42:01,680
particular house in westall that was

983
00:42:06,710 --> 00:42:03,720
virtually directly opposite the front

984
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:06,720
Gates of westall high school and spoke

985
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:08,640
words to the man and woman living there

986
00:42:13,370 --> 00:42:11,040
words that would ensure their silence

987
00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:13,380
for the rest of their lives

988
00:42:19,190 --> 00:42:16,800
these men wore suits not a uniform but

989
00:42:22,310 --> 00:42:19,200
they didn't seem to be police detectives

990
00:42:25,069 --> 00:42:22,320
they were from the authorities that is

991
00:42:27,770 --> 00:42:25,079
all that is known that and they told the

992
00:42:30,829 --> 00:42:27,780
married couple aged in their 40s living

993
00:42:33,950 --> 00:42:30,839
there that they were to never talk about

994
00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:33,960
the incident at westall ever

995
00:42:38,810 --> 00:42:36,000
the couple's children two of whom were

996
00:42:41,870 --> 00:42:38,820
already young adults in 1966 remember

997
00:42:45,170 --> 00:42:41,880
that any mention of the Flying Saucer by

998
00:42:48,410 --> 00:42:45,180
them at that time or later would cause

999
00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:48,420
their mum and dad to freeze and to

1000
00:42:54,230 --> 00:42:51,599
become visibly frightened their parents

1001
00:42:56,030 --> 00:42:54,240
flatly refused to talk about it and they

1002
00:42:57,710 --> 00:42:56,040
told their children that it was no use

1003
00:43:00,349 --> 00:42:57,720
trying to talk to the other neighbors

1004
00:43:01,069 --> 00:43:00,359
about it either as no one would discuss

1005
00:43:03,410 --> 00:43:01,079
it

1006
00:43:06,290 --> 00:43:03,420
others in the street had been similarly

1007
00:43:08,870 --> 00:43:06,300
visited and warned including another

1008
00:43:11,930 --> 00:43:08,880
older relative of this couple who lived

1009
00:43:14,690 --> 00:43:11,940
nearby who was a market gardener

1010
00:43:17,329 --> 00:43:14,700
and their father was no shrinking violet

1011
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:17,339
he'd been a soldier and the railway

1012
00:43:20,329 --> 00:43:18,480
guard

1013
00:43:23,349 --> 00:43:20,339
but seemingly promises had been

1014
00:43:26,210 --> 00:43:23,359
extracted from these good hard-working

1015
00:43:27,230 --> 00:43:26,220
down-to-earth people of westall to keep

1016
00:43:32,210 --> 00:43:27,240
a secret

1017
00:43:34,609 --> 00:43:32,220
could not dent and the keeping of that

1018
00:43:36,890 --> 00:43:34,619
secret would for years cause a reaction

1019
00:43:39,410 --> 00:43:36,900
in a mother and a father that looking

1020
00:43:42,829 --> 00:43:39,420
back on it now their 83 year old

1021
00:43:46,130 --> 00:43:42,839
daughter still finds so perplexing

1022
00:43:48,829 --> 00:43:46,140
what words indeed were uttered on The

1023
00:43:52,870 --> 00:43:48,839
Veranda of that weatherbought house all

1024
00:43:56,329 --> 00:43:52,880
those years ago and why

1025
00:43:58,250 --> 00:43:56,339
and for the 83 year old daughter who

1026
00:44:02,089 --> 00:43:58,260
told me this story

1027
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:02,099
it was a very poignant story for her

1028
00:44:08,089 --> 00:44:05,520
of course her parents had passed away

1029
00:44:10,790 --> 00:44:08,099
um but for her she was also a witness

1030
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:10,800
herself to the Flying Saucer because she

1031
00:44:15,770 --> 00:44:12,960
had been in the front garden of that

1032
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:15,780
house tending the Roses

1033
00:44:21,770 --> 00:44:18,960
when she saw this object fly in

1034
00:44:24,530 --> 00:44:21,780
she short saw it fly in she saw it

1035
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:24,540
calmed down she saw it land

1036
00:44:30,370 --> 00:44:27,599
and after a short passage of time had

1037
00:44:34,210 --> 00:44:30,380
passed she saw it lift up

1038
00:44:37,670 --> 00:44:34,220
silently without making any sound

1039
00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:37,680
causing any reverberations causing any

1040
00:44:42,349 --> 00:44:38,640
wind

1041
00:44:44,690 --> 00:44:42,359
lift up and fly away at great speed

1042
00:44:47,630 --> 00:44:44,700
and so that's something that happened

1043
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:47,640
was in no doubt for her she'd been a

1044
00:44:52,130 --> 00:44:49,680
primary Witness

1045
00:44:54,250 --> 00:44:52,140
and then she had to put up with this

1046
00:44:57,410 --> 00:44:54,260
knowledge that people had come around

1047
00:44:58,790 --> 00:44:57,420
and spooked her family spooked her own

1048
00:45:00,170 --> 00:44:58,800
mum and dad

1049
00:45:03,349 --> 00:45:00,180
and

1050
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:03,359
left this situation in which she could

1051
00:45:07,609 --> 00:45:05,040
no longer talk to her mum and dad about

1052
00:45:09,530 --> 00:45:07,619
what she had seen and what so many

1053
00:45:12,230 --> 00:45:09,540
others at westel had seen

1054
00:45:13,730 --> 00:45:12,240
because her mother and father had been

1055
00:45:15,770 --> 00:45:13,740
warned off

1056
00:45:18,650 --> 00:45:15,780
and even in the privacy of their home

1057
00:45:20,030 --> 00:45:18,660
the privacy of their family unit would

1058
00:45:22,910 --> 00:45:20,040
not talk about it

1059
00:45:25,609 --> 00:45:22,920
and this idea of of something being able

1060
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:25,619
to be kept silent for so long was

1061
00:45:29,630 --> 00:45:27,599
something that at the beginning I was a

1062
00:45:31,550 --> 00:45:29,640
bit skeptical of I I thought well come

1063
00:45:34,250 --> 00:45:31,560
on you know if something happened so

1064
00:45:36,050 --> 00:45:34,260
long ago even if you're told not to talk

1065
00:45:38,569 --> 00:45:36,060
about it shortly after the passage of

1066
00:45:39,589 --> 00:45:38,579
time you would think it's okay to talk

1067
00:45:41,510 --> 00:45:39,599
about it

1068
00:45:44,450 --> 00:45:41,520
but at around the same time I was

1069
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:44,460
contacted by the daughter of one of the

1070
00:45:48,710 --> 00:45:47,040
teachers at West or state school the

1071
00:45:51,170 --> 00:45:48,720
primary school next door

1072
00:45:52,849 --> 00:45:51,180
and she had seen some media about the

1073
00:45:55,730 --> 00:45:52,859
westel incident that I had been involved

1074
00:45:56,809 --> 00:45:55,740
in on TV and she contacted me to say

1075
00:45:59,390 --> 00:45:56,819
Shane

1076
00:46:01,190 --> 00:45:59,400
my mum was one of the teachers at West

1077
00:46:05,150 --> 00:46:01,200
or state school that day

1078
00:46:06,950 --> 00:46:05,160
and we knew nothing about it we did not

1079
00:46:09,609 --> 00:46:06,960
know that my mother had been there that

1080
00:46:14,089 --> 00:46:09,619
day and had been a witness my mother

1081
00:46:16,430 --> 00:46:14,099
kept silent about it all these years and

1082
00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:16,440
her mother only talked to the family

1083
00:46:22,010 --> 00:46:18,480
about it after she had seen the west or

1084
00:46:25,190 --> 00:46:22,020
66 documentary the one that Rosie Jones

1085
00:46:27,470 --> 00:46:25,200
made and aired on television in 2010 so

1086
00:46:29,690 --> 00:46:27,480
her mum had seen this at some point and

1087
00:46:32,270 --> 00:46:29,700
she finally opened up about being there

1088
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:32,280
that day she hadn't even talked to her

1089
00:46:37,970 --> 00:46:35,520
husband about it and she told the story

1090
00:46:40,190 --> 00:46:37,980
of the kids rushing into her classroom

1091
00:46:42,349 --> 00:46:40,200
from outside the kids were on recess at

1092
00:46:44,809 --> 00:46:42,359
the primary school talking about the

1093
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:44,819
flying sauces the flying sources and she

1094
00:46:48,950 --> 00:46:46,800
rushed outside and even though she

1095
00:46:52,250 --> 00:46:48,960
didn't see the object herself she saw

1096
00:46:54,170 --> 00:46:52,260
this huge area of flattened grass in a

1097
00:46:57,470 --> 00:46:54,180
nearby Paddock

1098
00:47:00,109 --> 00:46:57,480
it seemed to be bubbling somehow seemed

1099
00:47:02,150 --> 00:47:00,119
to be affected somehow by whatever had

1100
00:47:05,750 --> 00:47:02,160
sat on top of it

1101
00:47:08,450 --> 00:47:05,760
she saw the effect it had on all of the

1102
00:47:10,309 --> 00:47:08,460
kids the kids were some of them were

1103
00:47:12,109 --> 00:47:10,319
hysterical some of them were frightened

1104
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:12,119
some of them were anxious

1105
00:47:17,630 --> 00:47:13,920
and the next day

1106
00:47:21,410 --> 00:47:17,640
the entire teacher community at the

1107
00:47:24,650 --> 00:47:21,420
school was spoken to by again two men

1108
00:47:26,030 --> 00:47:24,660
in suits not in uniform from the

1109
00:47:27,170 --> 00:47:26,040
government she didn't know where they

1110
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:27,180
were from

1111
00:47:31,849 --> 00:47:29,760
but the two men said this is the stay at

1112
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:31,859
westall you're not to talk about this

1113
00:47:37,970 --> 00:47:35,520
and if you do you're all be in danger of

1114
00:47:42,170 --> 00:47:37,980
losing your employment

1115
00:47:45,650 --> 00:47:42,180
and she kept her silence all those years

1116
00:47:47,450 --> 00:47:45,660
not even telling her husband

1117
00:47:49,849 --> 00:47:47,460
amazing

1118
00:47:51,349 --> 00:47:49,859
what for you has been because it sounds

1119
00:47:53,329 --> 00:47:51,359
to me from what you've told there are

1120
00:47:55,609 --> 00:47:53,339
some fascinating stories of of the

1121
00:47:57,230 --> 00:47:55,619
aftermath of the incident where in the

1122
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:57,240
the weeks proceeding

1123
00:48:03,230 --> 00:47:59,760
are following the incident that there

1124
00:48:04,550 --> 00:48:03,240
was still people being being shut up you

1125
00:48:06,170 --> 00:48:04,560
know they were they were being told in

1126
00:48:08,569 --> 00:48:06,180
no uncertain terms this wasn't something

1127
00:48:10,790 --> 00:48:08,579
they were ever going to discuss again

1128
00:48:13,609 --> 00:48:10,800
did it then just fizzle out was that

1129
00:48:16,430 --> 00:48:13,619
what was the legacy of this event and

1130
00:48:20,450 --> 00:48:16,440
how do people in Australia and West All

1131
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:20,460
particularly view the incident now

1132
00:48:24,470 --> 00:48:21,599
foreign

1133
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:24,480
I think the Legacy in a way from from

1134
00:48:29,510 --> 00:48:27,359
the perspective of whoever it was

1135
00:48:30,710 --> 00:48:29,520
that wanted to keep what happened at

1136
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:30,720
westall

1137
00:48:34,550 --> 00:48:32,400
Under Wraps

1138
00:48:35,809 --> 00:48:34,560
to keep what happened at westel at

1139
00:48:38,569 --> 00:48:35,819
westall

1140
00:48:41,690 --> 00:48:38,579
the Legacy for them was success

1141
00:48:43,309 --> 00:48:41,700
because it did stay under wraps it

1142
00:48:50,270 --> 00:48:43,319
literally

1143
00:48:51,130 --> 00:48:50,280
once or twice it got written up in a UFO

1144
00:48:54,230 --> 00:48:51,140
book

1145
00:48:57,230 --> 00:48:54,240
great researchers like Bill Chalker and

1146
00:48:59,930 --> 00:48:57,240
Keith basterfield here in Australia uh

1147
00:49:03,790 --> 00:48:59,940
mention it in their writings but in

1148
00:49:06,530 --> 00:49:03,800
terms of it going into the public

1149
00:49:10,250 --> 00:49:06,540
Marketplace and it being a story that

1150
00:49:13,250 --> 00:49:10,260
was known about that didn't happen it

1151
00:49:15,349 --> 00:49:13,260
really stayed under the carpet

1152
00:49:18,470 --> 00:49:15,359
and for the people who wanted that to be

1153
00:49:20,329 --> 00:49:18,480
the case they were successful

1154
00:49:22,190 --> 00:49:20,339
but

1155
00:49:24,170 --> 00:49:22,200
um it's now come out

1156
00:49:25,490 --> 00:49:24,180
it's coming out in drips and drapes of

1157
00:49:27,770 --> 00:49:25,500
course in terms of the greater public

1158
00:49:30,050 --> 00:49:27,780
Marketplace this whole still you know

1159
00:49:31,370 --> 00:49:30,060
huge numbers of people in Australia who

1160
00:49:34,370 --> 00:49:31,380
have never heard of the story know

1161
00:49:36,530 --> 00:49:34,380
nothing about the story for those people

1162
00:49:39,770 --> 00:49:36,540
who like us have an interest in this

1163
00:49:45,050 --> 00:49:39,780
subject area people do know

1164
00:49:48,650 --> 00:49:45,060
but I think now it's become part of this

1165
00:49:52,010 --> 00:49:48,660
growing and gradual acceptance by more

1166
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:52,020
and more people in the community that

1167
00:49:57,290 --> 00:49:55,440
there is there is a reality there is

1168
00:49:59,329 --> 00:49:57,300
something that people see

1169
00:50:02,329 --> 00:49:59,339
that is

1170
00:50:06,530 --> 00:50:02,339
to some extent inexplicable

1171
00:50:08,630 --> 00:50:06,540
and I often put it in the

1172
00:50:14,089 --> 00:50:10,970
in a way in the category of those

1173
00:50:17,809 --> 00:50:14,099
stories that over the years

1174
00:50:20,270 --> 00:50:17,819
had to be not talked about and we think

1175
00:50:21,230 --> 00:50:20,280
immediately of things like child sexual

1176
00:50:22,609 --> 00:50:21,240
abuse

1177
00:50:25,790 --> 00:50:22,619
cases

1178
00:50:29,150 --> 00:50:25,800
it's something that for the most part as

1179
00:50:32,329 --> 00:50:29,160
a society up until very recently

1180
00:50:35,210 --> 00:50:32,339
we either didn't have a great awareness

1181
00:50:37,069 --> 00:50:35,220
of or if we did it was something we

1182
00:50:38,690 --> 00:50:37,079
didn't talk about and we didn't think

1183
00:50:42,530 --> 00:50:38,700
about it we didn't want to think about

1184
00:50:44,569 --> 00:50:42,540
it we didn't want to recognize it but in

1185
00:50:46,370 --> 00:50:44,579
more recent years of course in Australia

1186
00:50:48,770 --> 00:50:46,380
other countries

1187
00:50:49,849 --> 00:50:48,780
the

1188
00:50:52,250 --> 00:50:49,859
um

1189
00:50:55,130 --> 00:50:52,260
this

1190
00:50:57,829 --> 00:50:55,140
systematic and institutional child

1191
00:51:00,230 --> 00:50:57,839
sexual abuse as well as child sexual

1192
00:51:02,329 --> 00:51:00,240
abuse happening within families along

1193
00:51:04,549 --> 00:51:02,339
with more generally domestic violence

1194
00:51:06,109 --> 00:51:04,559
incidents is something that we talk

1195
00:51:08,930 --> 00:51:06,119
about more now it's something that we

1196
00:51:10,970 --> 00:51:08,940
are recognizing and grappling with

1197
00:51:12,770 --> 00:51:10,980
but there were so many perhaps instances

1198
00:51:15,530 --> 00:51:12,780
over the years where children perhaps

1199
00:51:17,690 --> 00:51:15,540
came forward wanting to talk about these

1200
00:51:20,270 --> 00:51:17,700
sorts of things terrible things that had

1201
00:51:22,790 --> 00:51:20,280
happened to them and adults

1202
00:51:25,609 --> 00:51:22,800
wouldn't believe them adults wouldn't

1203
00:51:28,069 --> 00:51:25,619
listen to them and I think now we are

1204
00:51:30,890 --> 00:51:28,079
more prepared to do that please God I

1205
00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:30,900
think that's true and

1206
00:51:35,870 --> 00:51:33,660
and I think these UFO stories sort of

1207
00:51:38,089 --> 00:51:35,880
fit into that category in a way because

1208
00:51:40,250 --> 00:51:38,099
in the past people would try to talk

1209
00:51:41,450 --> 00:51:40,260
about what they had seen and what had

1210
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:41,460
happened to them and people didn't want

1211
00:51:46,250 --> 00:51:43,200
to know people didn't want to believe

1212
00:51:48,890 --> 00:51:46,260
and I think now we're more open to it

1213
00:51:50,690 --> 00:51:48,900
and I think we're more open to the to

1214
00:51:55,069 --> 00:51:50,700
the mystery of it

1215
00:51:59,410 --> 00:51:55,079
and that there's a truth to it and

1216
00:52:02,569 --> 00:51:59,420
and finding out what lies behind it all

1217
00:52:03,290 --> 00:52:02,579
is is a worthwhile thing to be engaged

1218
00:52:05,870 --> 00:52:03,300
in

1219
00:52:07,670 --> 00:52:05,880
and I haven't expressed myself very well

1220
00:52:10,370 --> 00:52:07,680
but really the main thing I'm trying to

1221
00:52:11,450 --> 00:52:10,380
say is that it's important to listen to

1222
00:52:20,569 --> 00:52:11,460
people

1223
00:52:23,569 --> 00:52:20,579
are

1224
00:52:27,230 --> 00:52:23,579
and even if their stories that challenge

1225
00:52:29,270 --> 00:52:27,240
our sense of what's possible or of

1226
00:52:32,270 --> 00:52:29,280
what's true and I think especially if

1227
00:52:34,910 --> 00:52:32,280
it's those sort of Stories We need to

1228
00:52:36,349 --> 00:52:34,920
listen to those and particularly their

1229
00:52:38,750 --> 00:52:36,359
stories that

1230
00:52:41,210 --> 00:52:38,760
come from a time when

1231
00:52:43,430 --> 00:52:41,220
people were children and people were

1232
00:52:44,089 --> 00:52:43,440
vulnerable

1233
00:52:46,430 --> 00:52:44,099
um

1234
00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:46,440
and I'm very aware that you know I've

1235
00:52:51,170 --> 00:52:48,480
been very fortunate to have had these

1236
00:52:53,870 --> 00:52:51,180
this experience of being in contact with

1237
00:52:55,490 --> 00:52:53,880
so many of these Western Witnesses I

1238
00:52:57,770 --> 00:52:55,500
mean I'm looking at my figures here on

1239
00:52:59,930 --> 00:52:57,780
my cheat sheet I've been in contact with

1240
00:53:02,930 --> 00:52:59,940
133 Witnesses

1241
00:53:06,710 --> 00:53:02,940
who were witnesses to the Flying sources

1242
00:53:09,710 --> 00:53:06,720
and 187 I had to change it recently

1243
00:53:12,049 --> 00:53:09,720
because I had another witness 187 people

1244
00:53:15,349 --> 00:53:12,059
who were witnesses to the circles or the

1245
00:53:17,809 --> 00:53:15,359
trace marks left behind and 75 lucky

1246
00:53:19,309 --> 00:53:17,819
people who were witnesses to both so

1247
00:53:21,290 --> 00:53:19,319
we're talking about very large numbers

1248
00:53:23,809 --> 00:53:21,300
of people

1249
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:23,819
um and so I've been very lucky to have

1250
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:26,640
this contact with so many people

1251
00:53:32,030 --> 00:53:29,040
um and they've been telling me stories

1252
00:53:35,329 --> 00:53:32,040
that have very much challenged my own

1253
00:53:38,510 --> 00:53:35,339
ideas of what is true and what is

1254
00:53:39,829 --> 00:53:38,520
possible and how the world works or is

1255
00:53:43,730 --> 00:53:39,839
supposed to work

1256
00:53:46,490 --> 00:53:43,740
and I think this experience has very

1257
00:53:48,589 --> 00:53:46,500
much changed me as it's changed the

1258
00:53:50,809 --> 00:53:48,599
witnesses as well

1259
00:53:52,549 --> 00:53:50,819
Shane I know it's very late where you

1260
00:53:54,290 --> 00:53:52,559
are and it's very early where I am I'm

1261
00:53:55,609 --> 00:53:54,300
just starting my day if you've got a few

1262
00:53:57,770 --> 00:53:55,619
minutes just to finish off with some

1263
00:53:59,390 --> 00:53:57,780
listener questions and maybe a few

1264
00:54:00,770 --> 00:53:59,400
things I've not managed to touch on in

1265
00:54:02,809 --> 00:54:00,780
the body of the interview we can get

1266
00:54:05,569 --> 00:54:02,819
through them as quickly as we can a

1267
00:54:07,309 --> 00:54:05,579
quick question from gnosis he asks are

1268
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:07,319
you aware of any of the West all

1269
00:54:12,049 --> 00:54:09,359
Witnesses having other sightings or

1270
00:54:15,530 --> 00:54:12,059
experiences either prior to the event or

1271
00:54:22,549 --> 00:54:19,750
to for the most part not really although

1272
00:54:24,470 --> 00:54:22,559
there's a couple of there's one witness

1273
00:54:26,870 --> 00:54:24,480
in particular who his name was Victor

1274
00:54:28,670 --> 00:54:26,880
and he was the fellow who jumped the

1275
00:54:31,250 --> 00:54:28,680
western boundary fence off the high

1276
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:31,260
school and walked up to one of the two

1277
00:54:35,930 --> 00:54:33,119
flying sources that was seen hovering

1278
00:54:37,549 --> 00:54:35,940
above the paddock next to the school and

1279
00:54:40,130 --> 00:54:37,559
went to put his hand out to touch one

1280
00:54:42,470 --> 00:54:40,140
drew his hand back because it was too

1281
00:54:45,710 --> 00:54:42,480
warm and then watched as the objects

1282
00:54:46,910 --> 00:54:45,720
ascended and flew away and there are a

1283
00:54:49,010 --> 00:54:46,920
couple of other Witnesses adult

1284
00:54:52,069 --> 00:54:49,020
Witnesses in fact who in part

1285
00:54:54,710 --> 00:54:52,079
corroborate that scene from Vantage

1286
00:54:57,470 --> 00:54:54,720
points near where Victor was standing

1287
00:54:59,870 --> 00:54:57,480
but he tells the story of having seen an

1288
00:55:02,930 --> 00:54:59,880
object very similar to the two objects

1289
00:55:04,910 --> 00:55:02,940
he saw that day at the Grange a couple

1290
00:55:08,089 --> 00:55:04,920
of years before

1291
00:55:09,589 --> 00:55:08,099
and in the days after westall I have

1292
00:55:12,410 --> 00:55:09,599
several witnesses who from different

1293
00:55:15,589 --> 00:55:12,420
Vantage points around westall from their

1294
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:15,599
homes or neighboring streets saw the

1295
00:55:20,990 --> 00:55:17,760
same object that was seen at westel on

1296
00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:21,000
the 6th of April in those days following

1297
00:55:28,430 --> 00:55:24,240
and and so that's part of the story as

1298
00:55:33,950 --> 00:55:31,549
um ongoing experiences

1299
00:55:35,809 --> 00:55:33,960
um um not really that's sort of the

1300
00:55:38,809 --> 00:55:35,819
extent of it but look I'm very aware

1301
00:55:41,390 --> 00:55:38,819
that there were 485 students at westall

1302
00:55:44,390 --> 00:55:41,400
high school that day and I've been in

1303
00:55:46,609 --> 00:55:44,400
contact with 224 of them so I've been in

1304
00:55:49,069 --> 00:55:46,619
contact with a lot but I haven't been in

1305
00:55:51,170 --> 00:55:49,079
contact with everybody and it's possible

1306
00:55:53,170 --> 00:55:51,180
that some of the people who are most

1307
00:55:56,470 --> 00:55:53,180
reluctant to come forward

1308
00:55:59,089 --> 00:55:56,480
uh are people who have had perhaps

1309
00:56:01,430 --> 00:55:59,099
experiences of a different type perhaps

1310
00:56:04,370 --> 00:56:01,440
slightly more traumatic or or slightly

1311
00:56:07,309 --> 00:56:04,380
more worrying one of the witnesses John

1312
00:56:11,690 --> 00:56:07,319
who is one of the very few people who is

1313
00:56:14,930 --> 00:56:11,700
adamant he saw a being come out of one

1314
00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:14,940
of the objects at the grains as he was

1315
00:56:22,430 --> 00:56:18,720
hiding behind bushes watching it took

1316
00:56:24,349 --> 00:56:22,440
years for him to make contact with me

1317
00:56:26,569 --> 00:56:24,359
um and still to this day he's very

1318
00:56:29,809 --> 00:56:26,579
reluctant to talk about his story

1319
00:56:32,089 --> 00:56:29,819
so I'm very conscious that there's

1320
00:56:34,430 --> 00:56:32,099
probably a lot more out there

1321
00:56:36,349 --> 00:56:34,440
that I'm not aware of

1322
00:56:38,089 --> 00:56:36,359
and I'm very open to hearing those

1323
00:56:39,890 --> 00:56:38,099
stories as well

1324
00:56:41,510 --> 00:56:39,900
well the country with the third highest

1325
00:56:43,250 --> 00:56:41,520
listener ship for this podcast is

1326
00:56:44,750 --> 00:56:43,260
Australia so hello to all the Australian

1327
00:56:47,809 --> 00:56:44,760
listeners out there

1328
00:56:50,210 --> 00:56:47,819
um if you and we only have 2016.

1329
00:56:51,950 --> 00:56:50,220
well there you go yeah it's about

1330
00:56:54,530 --> 00:56:51,960
quality not quantity

1331
00:56:56,450 --> 00:56:54,540
as as get in touch with Shane and

1332
00:56:58,250 --> 00:56:56,460
obviously let him know if if you know of

1333
00:56:59,630 --> 00:56:58,260
or maybe you were one of those students

1334
00:57:00,890 --> 00:56:59,640
on that day

1335
00:57:02,569 --> 00:57:00,900
um to to kind of get that information

1336
00:57:04,370 --> 00:57:02,579
out there Shane would be gratefully

1337
00:57:06,170 --> 00:57:04,380
accepting of you getting in touch with

1338
00:57:07,490 --> 00:57:06,180
him I'm sure and his contact details

1339
00:57:09,589 --> 00:57:07,500
will be in the description to the

1340
00:57:11,210 --> 00:57:09,599
podcast too so make sure you check that

1341
00:57:13,010 --> 00:57:11,220
for for those

1342
00:57:15,170 --> 00:57:13,020
um a question from Newman you mentioned

1343
00:57:17,150 --> 00:57:15,180
Victor approach The Craft

1344
00:57:19,790 --> 00:57:17,160
um did Victor or any others report

1345
00:57:21,950 --> 00:57:19,800
symbols or hieroglyphics or any details

1346
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:21,960
on the UFOs or the flying sources

1347
00:57:26,450 --> 00:57:24,000
themselves similar to what we hear from

1348
00:57:28,849 --> 00:57:26,460
rendersham for example

1349
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:28,859
I know wouldn't that be grateful to have

1350
00:57:34,790 --> 00:57:31,680
some sort of lettering on the craft be

1351
00:57:37,670 --> 00:57:34,800
it uh Egyptian or Sumerian or

1352
00:57:39,710 --> 00:57:37,680
anything would be fantastic yeah

1353
00:57:41,030 --> 00:57:39,720
anything would be great

1354
00:57:42,890 --> 00:57:41,040
um but no to take that question

1355
00:57:44,329 --> 00:57:42,900
seriously I don't mean to make light of

1356
00:57:46,370 --> 00:57:44,339
it at all

1357
00:57:49,010 --> 00:57:46,380
um most of the witnesses almost to a

1358
00:57:51,109 --> 00:57:49,020
person talk about there being nothing on

1359
00:57:53,270 --> 00:57:51,119
the craft that they could see now most

1360
00:57:55,549 --> 00:57:53,280
people weren't close enough to perhaps

1361
00:57:57,950 --> 00:57:55,559
see something like that but for those

1362
00:58:00,589 --> 00:57:57,960
who were they almost to a person

1363
00:58:06,109 --> 00:58:00,599
describe it as being

1364
00:58:09,650 --> 00:58:06,119
um smooth without any joins or nuts or

1365
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:09,660
rivets or indentations or anything like

1366
00:58:15,530 --> 00:58:11,760
that and and nothing in terms of

1367
00:58:21,589 --> 00:58:15,540
labeling or lettering or signage or

1368
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:21,599
symbols or colors uh no unfortunately if

1369
00:58:25,670 --> 00:58:23,040
there had been it perhaps it would have

1370
00:58:27,950 --> 00:58:25,680
changed the whole story

1371
00:58:30,530 --> 00:58:27,960
um but nothing like as you say has been

1372
00:58:33,890 --> 00:58:30,540
reported by Summit rendelsham or the

1373
00:58:36,170 --> 00:58:33,900
incident at Socorro or other incidents

1374
00:58:38,089 --> 00:58:36,180
over the years around the world now

1375
00:58:40,430 --> 00:58:38,099
it's a very human thing to label

1376
00:58:42,710 --> 00:58:40,440
everything and and you know drawn it map

1377
00:58:45,049 --> 00:58:42,720
Things label the outside of craft that

1378
00:58:47,329 --> 00:58:45,059
we have and in some way shape or form so

1379
00:58:49,789 --> 00:58:47,339
it's almost more unsettling more of

1380
00:58:51,890 --> 00:58:49,799
non-human property to have something

1381
00:58:54,710 --> 00:58:51,900
completely unlabeled as you see no

1382
00:58:57,650 --> 00:58:54,720
rivets no joins just completely metallic

1383
00:58:59,630 --> 00:58:57,660
and as simple as that so yeah I'm always

1384
00:59:01,250 --> 00:58:59,640
open to hearing any of those sorts of

1385
00:59:02,210 --> 00:59:01,260
sorts of details if they're if they're

1386
00:59:04,849 --> 00:59:02,220
there

1387
00:59:07,430 --> 00:59:04,859
um question from Gregory Gregory asks um

1388
00:59:09,530 --> 00:59:07,440
have you heard of the Fantastic book by

1389
00:59:12,170 --> 00:59:09,540
Preston Dennett schoolyard UFO

1390
00:59:13,730 --> 00:59:12,180
encounters it's a compilation of various

1391
00:59:15,710 --> 00:59:13,740
newspapers accounts chronicling

1392
00:59:18,589 --> 00:59:15,720
schoolyard appearances and schoolyard

1393
00:59:20,809 --> 00:59:18,599
Landings of UFOs going well back over

1394
00:59:23,870 --> 00:59:20,819
100 years

1395
00:59:26,990 --> 00:59:23,880
I was going to mention Preston Dennett

1396
00:59:29,270 --> 00:59:27,000
that is the most wonderful book what an

1397
00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:29,280
amazing effort he has done compiling

1398
00:59:33,710 --> 00:59:32,160
more than 100 stories westel's in there

1399
00:59:35,630 --> 00:59:33,720
as well of course and Preston I have

1400
00:59:38,030 --> 00:59:35,640
been in contact with each other over the

1401
00:59:40,789 --> 00:59:38,040
years and he keeps nudging me about

1402
00:59:43,190 --> 00:59:40,799
finally finishing my book that I am

1403
00:59:45,349 --> 00:59:43,200
trying to write on westall

1404
00:59:47,210 --> 00:59:45,359
um and he's done an amazing amount of

1405
00:59:50,750 --> 00:59:47,220
research and one of the other stories

1406
00:59:52,309 --> 00:59:50,760
that he has included in in his book is

1407
00:59:55,069 --> 00:59:52,319
partly

1408
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:55,079
um because it's the other story that I

1409
00:59:59,870 --> 00:59:57,599
have taken up as a personal area of

1410
01:00:01,970 --> 00:59:59,880
research for me and again it's another

1411
01:00:04,490 --> 01:00:01,980
story that's not well known at all

1412
01:00:06,230 --> 01:00:04,500
particularly in its home country and

1413
01:00:09,890 --> 01:00:06,240
that's the Crestview Elementary School

1414
01:00:13,849 --> 01:00:09,900
incident which happened exactly a year

1415
01:00:17,329 --> 01:00:13,859
to the day one year after westall the

1416
01:00:19,849 --> 01:00:17,339
6th of April 1967 spread over three days

1417
01:00:22,789 --> 01:00:19,859
a little bit like westall was for some

1418
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:22,799
people and and it has so many elements

1419
01:00:27,950 --> 01:00:25,200
that it shares with the west or story

1420
01:00:30,710 --> 01:00:27,960
kids students the Air Force being

1421
01:00:34,309 --> 01:00:30,720
involved the craft flying in and around

1422
01:00:35,650 --> 01:00:34,319
pine trees a field a paddock next to the

1423
01:00:38,329 --> 01:00:35,660
school

1424
01:00:41,150 --> 01:00:38,339
and it's a story that's almost

1425
01:00:42,950 --> 01:00:41,160
completely unknown and I've been in

1426
01:00:45,410 --> 01:00:42,960
touch over the years with many of the

1427
01:00:47,450 --> 01:00:45,420
kids now adults who were there at that

1428
01:00:50,750 --> 01:00:47,460
school in the suburbs of Miami by the

1429
01:00:53,569 --> 01:00:50,760
way about 20 kilometers north north west

1430
01:00:56,750 --> 01:00:53,579
of the Miami CBD

1431
01:00:59,510 --> 01:00:56,760
and none of those Witnesses have been

1432
01:01:01,490 --> 01:00:59,520
interviewed as adults it's only my

1433
01:01:02,569 --> 01:01:01,500
contact with them mostly by email over

1434
01:01:05,030 --> 01:01:02,579
the years

1435
01:01:06,829 --> 01:01:05,040
and I was very fortunate to be able to

1436
01:01:10,130 --> 01:01:06,839
convince the Discovery Channel Canada

1437
01:01:13,849 --> 01:01:10,140
people who made a series called Close

1438
01:01:15,770 --> 01:01:13,859
Encounters several years ago and they

1439
01:01:19,490 --> 01:01:15,780
included both the west or story and the

1440
01:01:21,230 --> 01:01:19,500
Crestview story in their episodes and

1441
01:01:23,329 --> 01:01:21,240
that has aired on TV in various

1442
01:01:25,370 --> 01:01:23,339
countries around around the world

1443
01:01:27,410 --> 01:01:25,380
but apart from that there's been very

1444
01:01:30,710 --> 01:01:27,420
little focus on that particular incident

1445
01:01:33,170 --> 01:01:30,720
and I love it because it has so many

1446
01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:33,180
common elements width and reverberations

1447
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:36,240
from the westal incident and the fact

1448
01:01:41,150 --> 01:01:38,480
that it happened a year to the day

1449
01:01:42,530 --> 01:01:41,160
afterwards it makes you wonder if you

1450
01:01:44,750 --> 01:01:42,540
know whatever is behind the UFO

1451
01:01:47,030 --> 01:01:44,760
phenomena has its sort of finger on a

1452
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:47,040
calendar or a diary or you know what's

1453
01:01:52,670 --> 01:01:48,960
going on down here on Earth in terms of

1454
01:01:54,710 --> 01:01:52,680
time and chronology it's just crazy

1455
01:01:58,329 --> 01:01:54,720
um and other great school-based stories

1456
01:02:00,950 --> 01:01:58,339
I'm very interested in as well the 1977

1457
01:02:03,230 --> 01:02:00,960
broadhaven County Primary School

1458
01:02:04,370 --> 01:02:03,240
incident in pembrokes here in Wales of

1459
01:02:07,849 --> 01:02:04,380
course that you would well know about

1460
01:02:11,329 --> 01:02:07,859
obviously the real one from 1994 in

1461
01:02:13,609 --> 01:02:11,339
Zimbabwe and because of my research I've

1462
01:02:15,890 --> 01:02:13,619
come across these other stories that

1463
01:02:18,230 --> 01:02:15,900
have happened in Australia associated

1464
01:02:20,569 --> 01:02:18,240
with schools as well

1465
01:02:22,490 --> 01:02:20,579
Gregory added to that do you think it's

1466
01:02:24,770 --> 01:02:22,500
possible that aliens or non-human

1467
01:02:26,990 --> 01:02:24,780
intelligencies might be less concerned

1468
01:02:29,150 --> 01:02:27,000
about their own safety appearing face to

1469
01:02:31,670 --> 01:02:29,160
face or in close proximity to Children

1470
01:02:33,890 --> 01:02:31,680
rather with adults and is that the

1471
01:02:36,589 --> 01:02:33,900
reason these things tend to land and

1472
01:02:38,690 --> 01:02:36,599
appear so close to schools

1473
01:02:40,910 --> 01:02:38,700
and of course that's a really important

1474
01:02:44,750 --> 01:02:40,920
question and you know is it aliens

1475
01:02:47,270 --> 01:02:44,760
that's behind UFOs is it some sort of

1476
01:02:49,010 --> 01:02:47,280
non-human intelligence or is it

1477
01:02:50,390 --> 01:02:49,020
something completely different that we

1478
01:02:53,510 --> 01:02:50,400
haven't thought of yet haven't dreamed

1479
01:02:55,250 --> 01:02:53,520
of yet is it us coming back from the

1480
01:02:57,230 --> 01:02:55,260
future

1481
01:02:59,930 --> 01:02:57,240
um is it some other planetary species

1482
01:03:01,670 --> 01:02:59,940
coming back from their future I like the

1483
01:03:03,470 --> 01:03:01,680
idea of it being us coming back from our

1484
01:03:05,569 --> 01:03:03,480
future because that's sort of more

1485
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:05,579
hope-filled in a way it means that hey

1486
01:03:09,890 --> 01:03:08,160
we survive we actually get out of this

1487
01:03:12,890 --> 01:03:09,900
mess this morass that we're in at the

1488
01:03:16,490 --> 01:03:12,900
moment and and we make it

1489
01:03:18,890 --> 01:03:16,500
um but in terms of the contact with

1490
01:03:22,250 --> 01:03:18,900
children you sort of have to wonder

1491
01:03:24,170 --> 01:03:22,260
is some sort of message being sowed is

1492
01:03:27,530 --> 01:03:24,180
some sort of Consciousness in our

1493
01:03:29,809 --> 01:03:27,540
society being raised over many years

1494
01:03:31,490 --> 01:03:29,819
over decades through these incidents

1495
01:03:32,990 --> 01:03:31,500
that have happened over many years and

1496
01:03:36,109 --> 01:03:33,000
decades

1497
01:03:38,569 --> 01:03:36,119
through the lives of children and as

1498
01:03:40,849 --> 01:03:38,579
they grow up and become adults and they

1499
01:03:42,950 --> 01:03:40,859
share the story and and people like you

1500
01:03:46,910 --> 01:03:42,960
and me come along and research the

1501
01:03:49,190 --> 01:03:46,920
stories and and the word goes out and

1502
01:03:52,250 --> 01:03:49,200
is that part of what this is all about

1503
01:03:55,069 --> 01:03:52,260
is it sort of a messaging that's been

1504
01:03:57,890 --> 01:03:55,079
very gently and in a way deliberately

1505
01:03:59,809 --> 01:03:57,900
managed

1506
01:04:02,329 --> 01:03:59,819
um I don't know of course I don't know

1507
01:04:05,329 --> 01:04:02,339
but we have to think about all these

1508
01:04:06,770 --> 01:04:05,339
things and and wonder about it

1509
01:04:09,049 --> 01:04:06,780
um

1510
01:04:11,089 --> 01:04:09,059
yeah I don't know but it's a great thing

1511
01:04:13,490 --> 01:04:11,099
to to wonder about isn't it

1512
01:04:15,589 --> 01:04:13,500
and finally from Melanie and she's been

1513
01:04:17,809 --> 01:04:15,599
fascinated by the us being involved in

1514
01:04:20,030 --> 01:04:17,819
so many UFO and alien events that

1515
01:04:22,250 --> 01:04:20,040
happened outside of its borders for

1516
01:04:24,470 --> 01:04:22,260
example suggestion suggestions that the

1517
01:04:26,930 --> 01:04:24,480
U.S collected everything from the

1518
01:04:29,089 --> 01:04:26,940
Virginia case in Brazil and she wonders

1519
01:04:31,789 --> 01:04:29,099
is there any evidence that the US got

1520
01:04:35,690 --> 01:04:31,799
involved in the west all event

1521
01:04:38,210 --> 01:04:35,700
those darned Americans gosh well I know

1522
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:38,220
it's something that we worry about it's

1523
01:04:42,170 --> 01:04:40,319
something I worry about my good friend

1524
01:04:44,210 --> 01:04:42,180
Ross called heart who I know you know

1525
01:04:45,710 --> 01:04:44,220
very well of course

1526
01:04:50,030 --> 01:04:45,720
um he's done a lot of great work in this

1527
01:04:51,890 --> 01:04:50,040
area and Ross contacted me years ago and

1528
01:04:53,569 --> 01:04:51,900
started talking to me about about

1529
01:04:56,809 --> 01:04:53,579
westall and it turned out that we both

1530
01:04:59,569 --> 01:04:56,819
had a very important witness that we

1531
01:05:02,210 --> 01:04:59,579
both knew who said a very interesting

1532
01:05:03,950 --> 01:05:02,220
light on the whole westall case and the

1533
01:05:06,950 --> 01:05:03,960
fact that the Australian government at

1534
01:05:09,890 --> 01:05:06,960
the time took a very very deep interest

1535
01:05:11,170 --> 01:05:09,900
in what happened at westall and this man

1536
01:05:15,289 --> 01:05:11,180
that we both

1537
01:05:16,730 --> 01:05:15,299
knew of who's now deceased but Ross

1538
01:05:19,490 --> 01:05:16,740
knows his son and I've been in contact

1539
01:05:22,490 --> 01:05:19,500
with his son this man was the fourth

1540
01:05:23,930 --> 01:05:22,500
highest ranking public servant in this

1541
01:05:25,970 --> 01:05:23,940
huge and very important government

1542
01:05:28,490 --> 01:05:25,980
Department called the department of

1543
01:05:31,130 --> 01:05:28,500
Supply which was charged with providing

1544
01:05:33,109 --> 01:05:31,140
Australia's Army Navy and Air Force with

1545
01:05:36,289 --> 01:05:33,119
everything it needed that Munitions and

1546
01:05:38,569 --> 01:05:36,299
uniforms and weapons and everything and

1547
01:05:41,030 --> 01:05:38,579
this man was a very intelligent man and

1548
01:05:42,530 --> 01:05:41,040
was in charge of that part of the

1549
01:05:46,190 --> 01:05:42,540
Department of Supply that dealt with

1550
01:05:48,710 --> 01:05:46,200
aircraft and guided weapons and he was

1551
01:05:50,750 --> 01:05:48,720
charged with the responsibility of

1552
01:05:53,510 --> 01:05:50,760
writing the report into what had

1553
01:05:56,210 --> 01:05:53,520
happened at westall a secret report and

1554
01:05:58,609 --> 01:05:56,220
he got picked up several times that week

1555
01:06:00,289 --> 01:05:58,619
from his home in Melbourne and driven

1556
01:06:02,809 --> 01:06:00,299
not to his office in the center of

1557
01:06:05,390 --> 01:06:02,819
Melbourne but out to westall

1558
01:06:07,609 --> 01:06:05,400
and he wrote that report

1559
01:06:10,490 --> 01:06:07,619
his son saw him right at around the

1560
01:06:12,049 --> 01:06:10,500
kitchen table and that report presumably

1561
01:06:14,930 --> 01:06:12,059
went to government

1562
01:06:17,210 --> 01:06:14,940
and possibly he created another copy of

1563
01:06:19,490 --> 01:06:17,220
that report which he kept for himself

1564
01:06:21,890 --> 01:06:19,500
and he gave instructions to his wife

1565
01:06:24,410 --> 01:06:21,900
that on his death those sorts of papers

1566
01:06:27,170 --> 01:06:24,420
potentially including that sequel westal

1567
01:06:30,529 --> 01:06:27,180
report go into the incinerator upon his

1568
01:06:32,690 --> 01:06:30,539
death and after he died in 1970 very

1569
01:06:34,910 --> 01:06:32,700
suddenly that's exactly what happened

1570
01:06:37,549 --> 01:06:34,920
apparently his wife put those papers

1571
01:06:39,589 --> 01:06:37,559
into the incinerator in the backyard and

1572
01:06:41,809 --> 01:06:39,599
they have stood out the front of that

1573
01:06:45,349 --> 01:06:41,819
house here in Canberra where that family

1574
01:06:48,230 --> 01:06:45,359
lived peered into the backyard and just

1575
01:06:50,990 --> 01:06:48,240
imagined that that day and just wished I

1576
01:06:53,690 --> 01:06:51,000
could have been there that day in 1970

1577
01:06:56,690 --> 01:06:53,700
and stopped those papers going into the

1578
01:06:59,329 --> 01:06:56,700
incinerator and spoken to that man about

1579
01:07:00,970 --> 01:06:59,339
what he saw at westall and what went

1580
01:07:04,730 --> 01:07:00,980
into that report

1581
01:07:06,650 --> 01:07:04,740
and is it the fact that the reason we

1582
01:07:09,109 --> 01:07:06,660
can't find that report or any other

1583
01:07:11,750 --> 01:07:09,119
official information about westall in

1584
01:07:14,630 --> 01:07:11,760
the Australian government files in the

1585
01:07:17,150 --> 01:07:14,640
National Archives is it because those

1586
01:07:19,490 --> 01:07:17,160
papers have been sent somewhere else are

1587
01:07:21,950 --> 01:07:19,500
they over in Washington or are they in

1588
01:07:24,529 --> 01:07:21,960
London or are they somewhere here in

1589
01:07:26,510 --> 01:07:24,539
Canberra as well but in some deep dark

1590
01:07:28,549 --> 01:07:26,520
file that no Freedom of Information

1591
01:07:32,150 --> 01:07:28,559
application is ever going to touch

1592
01:07:34,309 --> 01:07:32,160
because of ongoing and enduring National

1593
01:07:36,829 --> 01:07:34,319
Security concerns

1594
01:07:39,049 --> 01:07:36,839
but you know Australia likes to share

1595
01:07:42,470 --> 01:07:39,059
things with its friends especially its

1596
01:07:44,630 --> 01:07:42,480
five eyes friends especially the US

1597
01:07:47,029 --> 01:07:44,640
and sometimes Australia I think's been

1598
01:07:49,130 --> 01:07:47,039
lent on over the years by some of those

1599
01:07:52,910 --> 01:07:49,140
five eyes friends again especially

1600
01:07:54,770 --> 01:07:52,920
probably the us as the senior partner

1601
01:07:55,970 --> 01:07:54,780
um to make sure it hands over that sort

1602
01:07:58,490 --> 01:07:55,980
of information

1603
01:08:01,789 --> 01:07:58,500
as the senior partner that's over the

1604
01:08:04,789 --> 01:08:01,799
years taken the lead uh either publicly

1605
01:08:05,870 --> 01:08:04,799
or not so publicly in this area of

1606
01:08:08,510 --> 01:08:05,880
research

1607
01:08:10,490 --> 01:08:08,520
and so it wouldn't surprise me at all

1608
01:08:11,750 --> 01:08:10,500
that there's some information about

1609
01:08:14,510 --> 01:08:11,760
westall

1610
01:08:15,710 --> 01:08:14,520
in another country and maybe somewhere

1611
01:08:18,650 --> 01:08:15,720
in the US

1612
01:08:22,130 --> 01:08:18,660
and maybe the really important solution

1613
01:08:24,709 --> 01:08:22,140
to what happened at westall is there and

1614
01:08:27,110 --> 01:08:24,719
not here but you know as an Aussie

1615
01:08:28,729 --> 01:08:27,120
living here in Canberra I really hope

1616
01:08:32,030 --> 01:08:28,739
there's still something here in Canberra

1617
01:08:33,650 --> 01:08:32,040
and that one day whether it's me or

1618
01:08:36,709 --> 01:08:33,660
someone else we'll be able to knock on

1619
01:08:39,050 --> 01:08:36,719
just that right door and unearth it or

1620
01:08:41,930 --> 01:08:39,060
that somebody who might miraculously

1621
01:08:43,610 --> 01:08:41,940
still be alive after all these years and

1622
01:08:47,150 --> 01:08:43,620
still have their wits about them after

1623
01:08:49,130 --> 01:08:47,160
all these years who either was involved

1624
01:08:52,249 --> 01:08:49,140
at westall that day

1625
01:08:53,990 --> 01:08:52,259
in an official capacity be it military

1626
01:08:57,890 --> 01:08:54,000
or intelligence

1627
01:09:00,829 --> 01:08:57,900
or has some link to someone who was

1628
01:09:04,010 --> 01:09:00,839
that they'll do the right thing

1629
01:09:06,349 --> 01:09:04,020
and step forward and talk about what

1630
01:09:09,070 --> 01:09:06,359
happened 56 years ago because surely

1631
01:09:12,169 --> 01:09:09,080
after all these years there can be no

1632
01:09:15,490 --> 01:09:12,179
ongoing commercial in confidence or

1633
01:09:19,910 --> 01:09:15,500
National Intelligence or or reputational

1634
01:09:23,450 --> 01:09:19,920
issues that mean we can't talk about

1635
01:09:25,970 --> 01:09:23,460
this anymore or or at all

1636
01:09:27,829 --> 01:09:25,980
but if there is something like that well

1637
01:09:31,910 --> 01:09:27,839
doesn't that in a way tell us something

1638
01:09:33,709 --> 01:09:31,920
about maybe what the westel incident was

1639
01:09:35,510 --> 01:09:33,719
all about that it was something

1640
01:09:38,329 --> 01:09:35,520
significant that it was something

1641
01:09:41,870 --> 01:09:38,339
potentially that was so perplexing not

1642
01:09:46,010 --> 01:09:41,880
just to the authorities in 1966 but even

1643
01:09:47,990 --> 01:09:46,020
56 years later that still has to be kept

1644
01:09:50,630 --> 01:09:48,000
Under Wraps

1645
01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:50,640
well they let Harry read Senator Hadid

1646
01:09:54,110 --> 01:09:52,080
said it's certainly a worldwide

1647
01:09:55,790 --> 01:09:54,120
phenomena and that's their episode

1648
01:09:58,010 --> 01:09:55,800
hopefully has gone to prove that even

1649
01:10:00,770 --> 01:09:58,020
more so thanks to all the listeners on

1650
01:10:02,990 --> 01:10:00,780
YouTube Twitter via email via DMS who

1651
01:10:04,790 --> 01:10:03,000
submitted listener questions Shane I

1652
01:10:06,290 --> 01:10:04,800
could have gone on another hour asking

1653
01:10:08,090 --> 01:10:06,300
you those but it's very late where you

1654
01:10:09,350 --> 01:10:08,100
are I'd love to get you back on in the

1655
01:10:11,090 --> 01:10:09,360
new year to go through some of those

1656
01:10:12,590 --> 01:10:11,100
other cases you mentioned but also we'll

1657
01:10:14,750 --> 01:10:12,600
get back to the rest of those listener

1658
01:10:16,550 --> 01:10:14,760
questions as well I'd like to thank you

1659
01:10:18,770 --> 01:10:16,560
for your time you've been very generous

1660
01:10:20,330 --> 01:10:18,780
obviously rescheduling as well and if

1661
01:10:22,250 --> 01:10:20,340
you could just let people know how they

1662
01:10:24,110 --> 01:10:22,260
can follow you how they can also watch

1663
01:10:25,550 --> 01:10:24,120
the documentary and just get your work

1664
01:10:28,189 --> 01:10:25,560
in general

1665
01:10:30,530 --> 01:10:28,199
sure so you can reach me on Facebook so

1666
01:10:34,430 --> 01:10:30,540
the westel incident Facebook page is

1667
01:10:36,350 --> 01:10:34,440
pretty easy to find and also the

1668
01:10:38,330 --> 01:10:36,360
original documentary that was made for

1669
01:10:40,450 --> 01:10:38,340
television in Australia it has a

1670
01:10:42,490 --> 01:10:40,460
wonderful website and that's

1671
01:10:46,130 --> 01:10:42,500
westel66

1672
01:10:49,790 --> 01:10:46,140
ufo.com dot a u there's a trailer there

1673
01:10:51,530 --> 01:10:49,800
a press kit two study guides and also a

1674
01:10:53,930 --> 01:10:51,540
video book with 30 minutes of extra

1675
01:10:57,229 --> 01:10:53,940
footage not seen in the original

1676
01:10:59,330 --> 01:10:57,239
documentary that's there as well

1677
01:11:01,490 --> 01:10:59,340
brilliant all those links will also be

1678
01:11:03,229 --> 01:11:01,500
in the description for this show uh

1679
01:11:05,030 --> 01:11:03,239
Shane have a wonderful festive period

1680
01:11:06,709 --> 01:11:05,040
merry Christmas happy New Year when it

1681
01:11:08,630 --> 01:11:06,719
comes to all of you over in Australia as

1682
01:11:10,550 --> 01:11:08,640
well special thank you to Ross Coulter

1683
01:11:12,169 --> 01:11:10,560
for getting us in touch many months ago

1684
01:11:14,510 --> 01:11:12,179
it's been great and well worth the wait

1685
01:11:16,070 --> 01:11:14,520
having you on as well shin

1686
01:11:18,470 --> 01:11:16,080
thank you Andy thank you for your kind

1687
01:11:20,870 --> 01:11:18,480
words and keep up the good fight we

1688
01:11:22,790 --> 01:11:20,880
really appreciate it that is all for

1689
01:11:24,830 --> 01:11:22,800
this week's show thank you very much for

1690
01:11:26,689 --> 01:11:24,840
listening please remember to leave the

1691
01:11:29,570 --> 01:11:26,699
podcast the review on your chosen

1692
01:11:31,250 --> 01:11:29,580
platform you can like retweet And

1693
01:11:33,350 --> 01:11:31,260
subscribe that would all be very much

1694
01:11:35,450 --> 01:11:33,360
appreciated the shows are being uploaded

1695
01:11:37,610 --> 01:11:35,460
onto YouTube as we speak more and more

1696
01:11:40,189 --> 01:11:37,620
you can sign up at patreon.com forward

1697
01:11:42,890 --> 01:11:40,199
slash that UFO podcast the accessories

1698
01:11:45,169 --> 01:11:42,900
ad free as well please get in touch on

1699
01:11:48,229 --> 01:11:45,179
Twitter Facebook Instagram that UFO

1700
01:11:51,649 --> 01:11:48,239
podcast of course on Twitter it's at UFO

1701
01:11:53,209 --> 01:11:51,659
UAP am and again folks as always keep

1702
01:11:56,090 --> 01:11:53,219
looking up you never know what you might

1703
01:11:56,100 --> 01:12:00,450
foreign

1704
01:13:01,870 --> 01:12:21,910
[Music]

1705
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:10,220
because it doesn't really scare me

1706
01:14:23,030 --> 01:13:21,440
[Music]

1707
01:14:24,940 --> 01:14:23,040
thank you

1708
01:14:45,169 --> 01:14:24,950
very much

1709
01:14:46,550 --> 01:14:45,179
[Music]